I'm going to try to get one review done today. No promises though.

One other thing while we're on the topic of website space, etc...

If we decide to have an IRC bot idling in #gamegeeker on irc.chatvice.net (formerly irc.gamesaloon.net), and have this bot upload .txt files of channel logs every 24 hours, we'll need to include how much space those logs will take up. I'd guess an average day's log could be anywhere from 20Kb to 200Kb, depending on how much talking goes on.

One of us (I nominate me) could be in charge of pruning log files that are more than, say, a month old, which would save on server space.

If the server doesn't allow the neccesary stuff for an IRC connection (see my earlier posts) I may be able to negociate with the owners of Chatvice.net to let the bot use one of their servers, with FTP upload. Let me know and I'll try to sort things out.

Here's my Locomotion review - sorry if it's a bit long, but as you know I do tend to be a little verbose at times.

I have done half of the HL2 review. I'll end up finishing the rest this afternoon.

double post edit:

Finished.

We also should think about appointing an editor, one who know grammar and spelling.

Edit: Sorry if it is too long. It's about 2.5 pages in MS Word.

One other thing while we're on the topic of website space, etc...

If we decide to have an IRC bot idling in #gamegeeker on irc.chatvice.net (formerly irc.gamesaloon.net), and have this bot upload .txt files of channel logs every 24 hours, we'll need to include how much space those logs will take up. I'd guess an average day's log could be anywhere from 20Kb to 200Kb, depending on how much talking goes on.

One of us (I nominate me) could be in charge of pruning log files that are more than, say, a month old, which would save on server space.

If the server doesn't allow the neccesary stuff for an IRC connection (see my earlier posts) I may be able to negociate with the owners of Chatvice.net to let the bot use one of their servers, with FTP upload. Let me know and I'll try to sort things out.Go ahead. Just don't be too crazy about editing (you occasionally can be on the forum ;))

Go ahead. Just don't be too crazy about editing (you occasionally can be on the forum ;))

I won't edit anything out of the logs, I'll just remove old logs from the website.

Even if people start saying nasty things about a forum member in the IRC channel, I won't edit that out.

Very descriptive and informative reviews from Paul.Power and OldSkoolCrazy.

EDIT: Traxada how are those cartoonish avatars of the staff coming along?

Since I'm owner of this whole project, it seems I'll like to see things be picked up and moved along, I might produce goodies for the site, wallpapers, links and more.

I'm thinking of giving away some of my games but think of this as a GameGeeker contest sort of thing.

Since I'm owner of this whole project, it seems I'll like to see things be picked up and moved along, I might produce goodies for the site, wallpapers, links and more.
You're the... owner? That means you'll be paying for our bandwith and stuff?

Very descriptive and informative reviews from Paul.Power and OldSkoolCrazy.

Thanks.

EDIT: Traxada how are those cartoonish avatars of the staff coming along?

Are we supposed to tell him how we want them to look like?

You're the... owner? That means you'll be paying for our bandwith and stuff?

Possibly... that depends on the rate of fee per month/year but I thought AT was covering the whole website as to which thomasp the whole IRC situation.

are we supposed to tell him how we want them to look like?

When he announced he'll do the whole avatar thing, I gave my suggestion along with someone else, so I'm guessing yeah you were suppose to ;)

Possibly... that depends on the rate of fee per month/year but I thought AT was covering the whole website as to which thomasp the whole IRC situation.
Bear in mind I don't really know anything more about the quality of hosts or how much traffic you can expect the site to generate than anyone else here. Every time I've made a website for myself I've found a free host. I managed to find one once with FTP and no adverts, but then they started losing lots of money (largely because they were giving people FTP and no adverts) and shut up shop, so that was the end of that. They've so far been less than reliable, but then, you get what you pay for. I (perhaps naively) would assume a paid host with an actual legal obligation to provide a good service would be better. I wonder who'd be the pest people to ask about this kind of thing...

Possibly... that depends on the rate of fee per month/year but I thought AT was covering the whole website as to which thomasp the whole IRC situation.

IRC is completely free, unless you want to create your own irc network...

On a side note, I may have "struck gold" with regards to the logging bot - I think I've found someone who's willing to code it for me :) Now, all I need is a server to put the bot on (shouldn't be too much of a problem - I need to do some begging to the admins of ChatVice.net), a website for the bot to upload its logs to (slightly more of a problem) and PEOPLE TO VISIT THE IRC CHANNEL AND TALK (biggest problem)

Oh, and something that occured to me a while ago:

Far more important than consistent structure is that all reviewers use the same mark scheme. It's no good one using a 5/10 average, one using a 7/10 average and one using 7.5. The scores wouldn't mean anything in relation to each other then.

I say we do a Score System that uses famous cartoon characters.

"Nice graphics, ambient music that really sets the scene. I give it one Tweety-Bird and two Elmer Fudds."

"Appallign storyline and fidgetty controls. Overall, it receives 3 Spongebobs."

May I suggest that when doing a review, you also add simple information about the game.
eg. Developer,
Publisher,
Release dates (America, Europe and Australia),
Platforms it is available on,
Minimum and Recommended specifications for PC versions etc.

Also I think it would be a good idea if we also gave 'sub-ratings' for the games.
eg. Gameplay,
Graphics,
How long the game lasts etc.
if u still want those cartoons, post your reviwer description here and ill have a bash at themSounds like a nice idea.

Skin: White, no tan.
Hair: Auburn

1. May I suggest that when doing a review, you also add simple information about the game.
eg. Developer,
Publisher,
Release dates (America, Europe and Australia),
Platforms it is available on,
Minimum and Recommended specifications for PC versions etc.

2. Also I think it would be a good idea if we also gave 'sub-ratings' for the games.
eg. Gameplay,
Graphics

1. I did ;) except for the Minimum and Recommended specifications

2. I did ;) except for the how long it lasts bit

For my Eric review I'll keep what you said of the Minimum and Recommended specifications, publisher, and release date tips in mind.

As for the reviews score they go based on .5, and we're not going to do the whole two people comparison one review idea, it was a good idea though

Minimum and Recommended specifications for PC versions etc.

Seems unnecessary if you ask me...

Well if anyone wants to buy a game, they'll need to know the specification.

Possibly... that depends on the rate of fee per month/year but I thought AT was covering the whole website as to which thomasp the whole IRC situation.
You can't really call yourself the owner then, can you? This seems like a cooperative project to me.

EDIT: Traxada how are those cartoonish avatars of the staff coming along?
On that note, I'd like to warn him that the stubble has now become a proper beard (owing to laziness on the line)

I'll do a review of Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 when I get a break in my homework:)

How goes the reviews everyone?

How goes the reviews everyone?

I barely have enough spare time in between my revision breaks to do more revision for exams, let alone write a review ;)


I don't reallly want to write any more until the website is online though, as spare time isn't something that grows freely on trees nearby me.

In that case, we really need someone to get us a website and then webmaster it.

Volunteers? Anyone?

In that case, we really need someone to get us a website and then webmaster it.

Volunteers? Anyone?

I'll do the IRC side of the website. But I haven't got the knowledge to webmaster the entire site, let alone set one up.

But I haven't got the knowledge to webmaster the entire site, let alone set one up.

Same

I've always assumed AndrewTaylor would cover the whole website situation, since after that impressive layout he showed us. Only other person would be S2K but think he's bit busy with the moving and such.

Andrew, please read this.

Same

I've always assumed AndrewTaylor would cover the whole website situation, since after that impressive layout he showed us.
Huh......?

Huh......?

http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~phy1amt/gameGeeker/index.html

http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~phy1amt/gameGeeker/review.html

How goes the reviews everyone?Well Locomotion, as you know, is in. MVCM is on the way.

I'll probably have to delay reviewing SC4 and SADX 'til after the deadline.

I'll probably have to delay reviewing SC4 and SADX 'til after the deadline.

How come?

I'll have the Eric review done either tomorrow or friday

I haven't got time at the moment to do anything -- but the exams are over in a couple of weeks and then I'll have more time than I know what to do with (albeit temporarily again). In that time I could probably put together a fairly self-sustaining layout system, but it'd mean nothing-doing for a while. Ideally, I suppose, one could write a system that had a web form allowing you to post reviews like blogspot pages. I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement, as I don't know much PHP, but if we could get a database up and running it should be doable. Besides, I'm always up for a challenge, and it's a fairly common problem so there are web resources out there to make it less of one. I already have a similar system for webcomics, so that should contain a lot of useful code I can examine and dissect.

But as I've said, I don't know much about buying server space or anything, so I suggest someone else handle that and then tell me what I have to work with or else tell me who has to work with it instead of me and I'll go off somewhere and do something else, most probably involving the pub.

The trouble is, that I don't really know what the best system (PHP, API, CGI, mySQL, etc, etc) to use for something like this and I don't know how I would find out short of learning them all. (I expect it's PHP with mySQL, to be honest, but mySQL has always been something of a mystery to me.)

MORE IMPORTANT NEWS ABOUT THE IRC CHANNEL

Unfortunately, ChatVice has merged with an old network, so you will all have to change the server that you use to connect to the irc channel. Details follow:

Server: irc.gameradius.org
Channel: #gamegeeker

You'll have to re-register with NickServ, so as I can give you op status. Type /ns register <username> <password>
When I'm next online, and if you're online, I'll give you your op status :)


Unfortunately, this has kind of thrown a citadel-sized spanner into the IRC bot works. I'll have to wait a bit before getting it sorted out (mind you, we need a website first ;) )

I don't know much about buying server space or anything, so I suggest someone else handle that

I do but wouldn't be able to constantly afford to keep it online.

IRC

I strongly urge people to come join and speak in the gamegeeker channel. I and thomasp agree that only two people talking of GC let alone other topics feels a bit...lonely.

I do but wouldn't be able to constantly afford to keep it online.
I rather assumed that the bill would be footed by te collective somehow. One person sets it up in their name and everyone else paypals them their balance, ideally all at once so they can't quit and stop paying and leave some poor sod with a contract to honour.

There's always the question of selling adspace as well, but to be honest ad revenue on the internet is roughly zero.

I rather assumed that the bill would be footed by te collective somehow. One person sets it up in their name and everyone else paypals them their balance, ideally all at once so they can't quit and stop paying and leave some poor sod with a contract to honour

Interesting theory, but it terms of the provider, you put an amount down and usually depending on whom; they give you a certain amount of years the URL will be claimed for. I'm not really sure how paypal works, only you donate an amount to someone's account, not sure how or what they do for that balance. I could be the one to buy the URL, but it terms of which provider, what do you feel is accurate?

Well, I was assuming someone-- for the sake of readability, let's say you-- find a host and a domain provider (probably the same company). Lets say it costs $100 for a year and there are five people involved in the project (because that makes the maths very easy, not because that's a reasonable price. I don't even know what a Canadian Dollar is worth, but I expect not a lot. Then, everyone else paypals you $20. That's $80 in total you get, then you personally spend $100 on the server. That way everyone's paid equally. When the contract rolls round for renewal you sort the paypal out again the same way and if people don't pay up don't bother to renew it and refund anyone who did by paypal.

Paypal's pretty easy to set up and use even for a one-off transaction, but if you like you can always do online transfer directly between bank accounts if your bank allows you to do that. It'd probably be cheaper (free, in my case) than paypal.

One thing you might want to look into is Google's AdSense scheme.

You have a small Google banner ad (text only) on the site pages. The contents of this ad are related to the contents of the page you're viewing (so, if you were viewing a page about Project Gotham Racing 2, you'd have ads for buying PGR2).

Whenever someone clicks on a link in the ad bar and browses around the advertiser's site a bit, the GameGeeker site earns a few cents to a few dollars.


I used to moderate a forum that had this to pay their server bills. It worked great, until a few people abused the system (you have to have lots of different IP addresses click the ads, not just the same couple of addresses) and earnt over $1000 in a month. Google checked this and cancelled the forum's contract thingy, which then led to the death of that forum.

One thing you might want to look into is Google's AdSense scheme.

You have a small Google banner ad (text only) on the site pages. The contents of this ad are related to the contents of the page you're viewing (so, if you were viewing a page about Project Gotham Racing 2, you'd have ads for buying PGR2).
On my forum I have Google Ads and they invariable are rubbish at guessing what my forum is about. (In fairness I often have trouble with that too.) But I suppose on a website about videogames that would be less of a problem as it would presumably offer links to people selling the games we discuss.

What about the idea of having a shop a-la Deam17's? I have no idea about that either, but I do enjoy throwing ideas around.

Well, I was assuming someone-- for the sake of readability, let's say you-- find a host and a domain provider (probably the same company). Lets say it costs $100 for a year and there are five people involved in the project (because that makes the maths very easy, not because that's a reasonable price. I don't even know what a Canadian Dollar is worth, but I expect not a lot. Then, everyone else paypals you $20. That's $80 in total you get, then you personally spend $100 on the server. That way everyone's paid equally. When the contract rolls round for renewal you sort the paypal out again the same way and if people don't pay up don't bother to renew it and refund anyone who did by paypal.

Paypal's pretty easy to set up and use even for a one-off transaction, but if you like you can always do online transfer directly between bank accounts if your bank allows you to do that. It'd probably be cheaper (free, in my case) than paypal.

In that case, I'll have to pay for the provider on Feb 1st since that's when I'll be getting money. The Canadian dollar is not a lot, but speaking of provider will it be UK/USA/Canada based? I'm pretty sure my bank won't let me (they don't really like me) but I'll see. So it terms of the host and domain guess I'll be in charge of that. Conveniently, I've got a paypal account, so this all works out. If we extend the deadline of reviews, that would be the best opportunity for everyone since people seem to be busy with exams and such. I'm eagerly waiting to see how people's staff portraits turned out though

What about the idea of having a shop a-la Deam17's?

Possibly but probably not

What about the idea of having a shop a-la Deam17's? I have no idea about that either, but I do enjoy throwing ideas around.
Sounds interesting. I'd say we wait to see if we can get some popularity going first, and then a shop might be a good idea.

One review for Michael Vaughan's Cricket Manager (score: 5.0/10)

How come?I think I bit off more than I could chew by saying I could review those games as well: it's been a busy last few weeks for me. SC4/RH is a massive game that requires serious looking at to review, though I should be able to have a bash at SADX soon.

Paul, you have got the reviews done and completed though, which is what counts. I'll read your review tomorrow morning, and I'll be saving them all on my PC. I've extended the deadline Feb 2nd, noticed people been busy. I'll be buying the domain/provider for no more or less than $100, I'll use Andrew's idea of Paypal.

no more or less than $100
You know, the same method works with other amounts as well. Finding whichever price is closest to $100 is pronabably not a good way to choose a provider.

You know, the same method works with other amounts as well. Finding whichever price is closest to $100 is pronabably not a good way to choose a provider.
In fact, finding the amount closest to $100 could be among the worst ideas.

In fact, finding the amount closest to $100 could be among the worst ideas.

I dunno. $80 USD or £45 GBP or so isn't really bad. As long as there's awesome bandwidth, full support for PHP and the like, the domain name included, etc etc.


The worst idea would be looking for the most expensive one. ;)

OMNIS. I use them for Fried.

If I'm being webmaster, do I get a little cartoony avatar, Trax?
______________

Actually, on that note, I've just downloaded the PHP manual, so I should be able to code in that soon, though I still can't test it without using the Windows console, which is hardly convenient, because my Apache setup just won't work for some reason.

Oh, and does anyone know what you want changing on the layout? I ought to be able to make it changable at a later date anyway, but I'd like to have the full template sorted before I start coding. Including graphics, if possible (a small change in graphics can mean a big change to HTML code-- usually doesn't, though), since I remember someone said they should be improved.

Graphics-wise I'd either want some nice high-res PSD files I could mess with, or else tips on how to improve what I've got. I have a couple of ideas as it is, but it couldn't hurt. I'm not bad at most formal graphics work if I know what I'm aiming for, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, and the background tile I put on there is really just a placeholder, though I've actually grown to rather like it. Anyone wants to suggest an alternative feel free.
______________

Oh, and does anyone know what's happening about "opinion" pieces (I mean, more like columns as opposed to reviews)? Personally, I can't hack doing reviews. I get bored doing the same thing for every title, and when I'm bored I don't write well. In any case I don't buy enough games to make it worthwhile. My interest is far better maintained by doing things differently each time -- which is clearly much less helpful than it is entertaining, and I've already written one or two things that I haven't found a home for yet.

But be warned: give me a column on gG and when I complete Deus Ex again I will upload all the poetry I wrote about the other characters in the "notes" page of my DataVault. (And I suppose I'd need an avatar if I did that.)

As long as it looks Nice and it allows me to do update my Column with ease, I won't complain.

Incidentally DeViney at GamePartisan has yet to give me an answer with regards to writing for both sites, so I'm going to assume it's a "Yes" and if necessary drop his site. I like you guys more anyway. You'll stick me on the Staff Page. I've been working at GP for over two years and i'm still not there. *******s. And they stioll haven't updated my Column in, what, a year? I send them updates on a regular basis and... *mumble mumble Millenium hand and shrimp*

Could someone bother Traxada on MSN for me? I haven't done so in a few weeks, and I don't feel like doing it again.

double post edit

Hey, it's my Donkey Konga review!

------------------------------------------------

Donkey Konga (GCN) is one of the more interesting games I've played in a while. A joint venture between Nintendo and Namco, it certainly pushes alternate gaming into a new area.

Donkey Konga is essentially a rhythm game, in the vein of Dance Dance Revolution and the many cheap-n-cheesy button pushing games it spawned. The player uses a bongo-shaped controller, made of plastic. The drum heads are made of an interesting vinyl-like material, which feels comfortable and good for long playing sessions. There is also a microphone, which "detects" claps.

Once up and running, the game gets right down to business. In order to get anywhere, you have to start playing the main game. There are three skill levels: Monkey, Chimp and Gorilla. The level progression is very good, and feels smooth. Monkey is easy enough for your 9-year-old sister, and Gorilla will challenge even the most experienced players.

Gameplay basically involves beating the bongos in time to the rhythm. Circular icons fly from right to left toward a crosshair, in DDR-esque fashion - yellow for left, red for right, pink for both. There is also a blue starburst-shaped icon, dictating a clap. The idea is to beat the bongo or clap precisely when the icon flies through the crosshair.

Rather than having each icon on a separate line, Nintendo chose to put the whole thing on one line, making the action quite hectic and fast-paced. It may take DDR crackers a little while to get used to this format, but it is very intuitive and once learned, a lot of fun.

But while the gameplay is enjoyable, Donkey Konga struggles a lot in the audio/visual department. The weird songs and bad graphics nearly ruin the game.

Certainly, song selection for any game of this sort is quite difficult. But in their effort to make Donkey Konga appeal to the whole family, Nintendo threw together what could very well be the oddest, most random song compilation I have ever seen in a video game or otherwise.

There's Nintendo theme songs, some remixed children's tunes (performed by extremely bad child singers, I might add), oldies (the majority of the songs), an "updated" classical composition or two, some horrid pop/rock music, and one electronic dance song. This is the first game I've ever seen where music literally ranges from Bingo to the Turkish March. I swear, the folks at Nintendo just threw a whole bunch of songs into a hat and picked them at random.

The graphics in Donkey Konga are stagnant and pre-rendered, similar in nature to the 2D Donkey Kong games except a lot uglier. The graphics feel unpolished and generally bad. Some may argue that it really doesn't matter, due to the fact that you're only looking at the drum patterns anyway, but that's just plain lazy. Come on, Nintendo, is this really the best you can do?

Bottom line: Donkey Konga is not quite there. Nintendo didn't spend enough time on the spit and polish of this game, and it shows. It's not worth $50, I'd advise waiting until it comes farther down in price yet.

FINAL RATING: 6.5

-Josh

Oh, and does anyone know what you want changing on the layout?

Nope, no changes everything looks fine.

Oh, and does anyone know what's happening about "opinion" pieces

GameGeeker has decided Ben will take care of the opinion/column stuff.

Your review

Very good! Creative and informative, your review inspired me to stay clear of that title.

"performed by extremely bad child singers"

I'm hoping it wasn't the kids from this CD - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000AGWFI/ref=pd_sr_ec_ir_m/102-3525583-8756935

I'm still trying to find a domain with php, no luck at the moment, I'll still look though.

I've saved the reviews and so far we got:

thomasp - COLIN MCRAE RALLY 2005, XBOX
FatWhitey - Albion, PC
Paul.Power - CHRIS SAWYER’S LOCOMOTION, PC and MICHAEL VAUGHAN'S CRICKET MANAGER, PC
OldSkoolCrazy - Half Life 2, PC
FutureWorm - Donkey Konga, Gamecube

"performed by extremely bad child singers"

I'm hoping it wasn't the kids from this CD - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000AGWFI/ref=pd_sr_ec_ir_m/102-3525583-8756935
Nope. They were worse than even the Kids Bop kids.

GameGeeker has decided Ben will take care of the opinion/column stuff.
GamePartisan has five Columns, two of which are written by the same person. Edge Magazine has three. What's to stop Andrew from having one as well...? Besides, Andrew has a writing style that I just can't top.

GamePartisan has five Columns, two of which are written by the same person. Edge Magazine has three. What's to stop Andrew from having one as well...? Besides, Andrew has a writing style that I just can't top.

I've not seen let alone read of Andrew's columns.

http://www.andrewtaylor.tk/

8 out of 10 cats prefer it.

GamePartisan has five Columns, two of which are written by the same person. Edge Magazine has three. What's to stop Andrew from having one as well...? Besides, Andrew has a writing style that I just can't top.
Agreed! We can have two.

8 out of 10 cats prefer it.
Alas, the feeling isn't mutual.

double post edit

I've found a free host that lets me upload PHP files, so I've been testing some stuff on there. I think that as of right now I could write some code that would parse TXT files (I could rename them for preference) into fancy HTML riddled files -- the TXT files wouldn't have any exdecutable code in them so that should be totally secure on that front. Right know I know how to make it read various details from a file, generate HTML content, read in and print an unlimited-length review, and I expect I could throw in some custom formatting tags for good measure.

I expect could also write a PHP script that created these TXT files from a form and added them to the archive, but the problem with doing that is that if someone else found it I expect they'd know a lot more about how to ruin the website with it than I know about stopping them. At the very least I could put in a password per staff member, and maybe save the new files to a different directory so you'd have to manually update them afterwards. I suppose it depends how concerned you'd have to me. As I understand it PHP is pretty secure stuff as a rule so if I don't leave any holes of my own it shouldn't be a problem. And if we never, ever post any links to the admin page anywhere then it shouldn't be easy to find. For good measure I could throw in some metatags to stop Google indexing it if it is found, and perhaps something to report if the Googlebot even looks at the page. Perhaps. It'll be incremental updates for a while now, I think. I'll ahve a go at making something that uses the layout and the script in one over the weekend, but as I say it's a problem to test them at home using only PHP.EXE.

For now, I have this script:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/test.php?id=wfus.txt
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/test.php?id=test.txt

It just reads the text files, adds a little code, and echos the results. Nothing fancy yet, but it does add in <br /> code automatically when the text file includes a newline character (or a line longer than 4096 characters, but that limit can be changed).

Edit: In fact, I may move my website there completely one of these days.

One question: Will that "You are using Internet Explorer. Why?" thing be on the real version?

One question: Will that "You are using Internet Explorer. Why?" thing be on the real version?

We can only hope!

One question: Will that "You are using Internet Explorer. Why?" thing be on the real version?
It will if I can get it past Ev!

Latest test: This page:
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/review.php?id=wfus.txt

Is generated from this file:
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/wfus.txt

Though it also uses:
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/leftbar.txt
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/rightbar.txt

I expect you could be coaxed into using a format that simple, yes?

(Edit: The images are still all PNGs so IE still can't show 'em properly. That's a job for the Batch Converter in PSP; should only take a minute. Also, this is still using the huge text size for headers, so it looks best maximised or at high res. That's also easily changed. In fact, I don't think I have to modify any PHP to do it.)

(Edit2: I'd like to move a couple of functions to seperate PHP files so they're more easily updateable, but that also should be simple enough.)

Alas, the feeling isn't mutual.

double post edit

I've found a free host that lets me upload PHP files, so I've been testing some stuff on there. I think that as of right now I could write some code that would parse TXT files (I could rename them for preference) into fancy HTML riddled files -- the TXT files wouldn't have any exdecutable code in them so that should be totally secure on that front. Right know I know how to make it read various details from a file, generate HTML content, read in and print an unlimited-length review, and I expect I could throw in some custom formatting tags for good measure.

I expect could also write a PHP script that created these TXT files from a form and added them to the archive, but the problem with doing that is that if someone else found it I expect they'd know a lot more about how to ruin the website with it than I know about stopping them. At the very least I could put in a password per staff member, and maybe save the new files to a different directory so you'd have to manually update them afterwards. I suppose it depends how concerned you'd have to me. As I understand it PHP is pretty secure stuff as a rule so if I don't leave any holes of my own it shouldn't be a problem. And if we never, ever post any links to the admin page anywhere then it shouldn't be easy to find. For good measure I could throw in some metatags to stop Google indexing it if it is found, and perhaps something to report if the Googlebot even looks at the page. Perhaps. It'll be incremental updates for a while now, I think. I'll ahve a go at making something that uses the layout and the script in one over the weekend, but as I say it's a problem to test them at home using only PHP.EXE.

For now, I have this script:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/test.php?id=wfus.txt
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/test.php?id=test.txt

It just reads the text files, adds a little code, and echos the results. Nothing fancy yet, but it does add in <br /> code automatically when the text file includes a newline character (or a line longer than 4096 characters, but that limit can be changed).

Edit: In fact, I may move my website there completely one of these days.

I had a hard time reading these largely proportioned paragraphs. Could you explain to me what you're saying here? For I only know simply html format and my feeble mind can't comprehend what you're saying here.


One question: Will that "You are using Internet Explorer. Why?" thing be on the real version?

What do you mean by this?

It will if I can get it past Ev!

Sure, do what you want I'm not stopping you.

On a side note, I'm not being so bright today as I'm usually am. Sorry for being stupid, people.

I had a hard time reading these largely proportioned paragraphs. Could you explain to me what you're saying here? For I only know simply html format and my feeble mind can't comprehend what you're saying here.I was kind of thinking aloud, I guess.

The system I'm building runs on PHP scripts. To test a PHP script you need a server. Normally I'd turn my PC into one and use that, but it's not working and I can't fix it. FreeOwnHost lets me test my PHP on their server for free.

At the moment the system I have has reviews (well, only one review, and that's mostly pig latin) stored in little TXT files. The TXT files contain the body of the review, the title of the game, the genre, platform, and so on. Example: http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/wfus.txt . There's also a script (review.php) that reads them and shows the user the flashy layout version. Example: http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/review.php?id=wfus.txt . That means all you have to do to upload a review is make a TXT file-- you don't have to use any PHP or HTML, and if I change review.php it updates all pages of the site at once.

The TXT files have a few tags in them that look more like bbCode than HTML. That's because it will allow my to change, say, the colour of every game title mentioned in every review at the stroke of a few keys, rather than having to find-and-replace them all. The PHP source refers to them as "ggCode". You'd pretty much have to learn them to make a review, but it'd be easy enough for me to make a TXT file out of a forum post or something if you didn't want to.

I could probably make a PHP page that makes the txt files using a form, so you'd have an interface that looked like BlogSpot's-- a big box to type the review in, and some smaller ones for title, platform, publisher details, etc.. If I did that, the site would be easier to maintain but probably easier to hack as well. (You know, 'cause people will just line up to hack gameGeeker.)



Edit: My early test script (when I didn't know any PHP at all) had a browser check in there to see if that worked. It did, and if you were using IE it asked you why. That's all. It's not in review.php, so you needn't worry about it.

Edit2: Obviously I still have to make scripts to list the reviews in the archive, and for the contents page, and suchlike.

Edit3: I'll sort something out to automate the final score, as well.

Edit4: I haven't been able to look at this page in anything other than IE. I do hope it still works in real browsers. I don't see why not; it's made of the same files as the HTML layout. If anyone does check it in Opera or FireFox (or Safari) then tell me if there's anything wrong.

Edit5: Trax, is there any chance of some little controller graphics for the top-right corner, for whatever formats anyone's actually gotten around to reviewing? I don't know what to use for the PC... a mouse, I suppose.

Edit5: Trax, is there any chance of some little controller graphics for the top-right corner, for whatever formats anyone's actually gotten around to reviewing? I don't know what to use for the PC... a mouse, I suppose.
I can make them, if you so desire.

Either way is good, as long as they're pretty.

Check out my new comment system, and tell me if it works:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/review.php?id=wfus (note the .txt is gone now)

Edit3: Just cleared most of the test comments out.

Edit: At present there's no way to delete a comment without just editing the text file they're stored in, mind.
Edit2: Anyone reccomend a good forum script? I haven't got FTP at uni, so it's a ***** to upload more than a few files at a time, so forum scripts take forever.

Edit4: Also, you might notice I've cleaned up the script a little. Most notably, stripped out some whitespace from the variables so it formats better and automated the file extention handling.

I have FTP.

I recommend phpBB, or IPB. I think I only stopped using IPB because the admin panel was affected by the lycos ads.

[ An IPB Forum ] (http://members.lycos.co.uk/kofc/forum)
[ A phpBB Forum ] (http://members.lycos.co.uk/kofc/forum2)

Bearing in mind, gG won't have the stupid lyocs ads...

Hmm... I've downloaded phpBB already, but there's a lot of files in it so I haven't uploaded it. I notice IPB seems to cost $70 for a year's running. That's quite a lot, I'd have thought, considering phpBB costs $zero.

Maybe I'll have a bash at uploading it at some point. It's not a bad script; I've used it from both ends before, but the admin end has been either the non-functional demo at phpbb.com or once when the Goons were hacking someone's---- shut up, Andrew.

Edit: ggCode is now allowed in comments too-- so simple formatting is back.

Well, I know there was a free downloadable version of IPB. Have a look around their site a bit more/maybe they've stopped doing it for free (then again, even if they did, they'd surely keep the old versions available to download)

All they're offering for free at the moment is the trial version: 5000 posts in 1000 topics by 200 members. For context, my forum's amassed 3127 in 368 by 56 since March, and that's without much of a theme to discuss, so that'd be a kind of a timebomb, and more-or-less commit us to paying for the full license anyway so they weren't all deleted when we run out.

Andrew,

Am I still the one looking for the domain still?

It looks that way at the moment. I've been the one writing PHP scripts. That's enough like work for me. I'd be tempted to go with omnis.com like Ben suggested. He's already shopped around once and found them.

It amsues me that they charge more for the demonstrably worse Windows hosting, though.

Edit: After the success of the comments thing I think I will add a form to update gameGeeker. I'll put in a password lock on it as some nod towards security, but I can't see it being a terribly advanced one, and you probably won't be able to change the password. My major plan for stopping it being hacked is not to tell anyone it exists.

Well, I know there was a free downloadable version of IPB. Have a look around their site a bit more/maybe they've stopped doing it for free (then again, even if they did, they'd surely keep the old versions available to download)
IPB was formerly free, but then there was the 2.0 release, and they started charging. Got it into their head that they could take on vBulletin. As if.

I expect they can. vB is a massively inefficient script, from what I hear.

I get this stuff from TEAM BARRY, who run the SA forums. (They're using a version of vB2 that they've hacked so much it's probably more powerful than vB3 is, and every time they update anything it comes with a long whinge about vB.)

Edit: I want custom gG smilies in the forum!

Looks like we're stuck with phpBB then (not that I don't like it, I do but it seems to be the only free one around now:(). I don't mind setting it up if neccessary.

I'm sorry I couldn't get my two other reviews up yet. I've just been having a lot of stress from school lately. I'll try to get them done next weekend if I don't get piled up with homework.

I'll get my Eric review done soon,

Been too focused and addictied to Morrowind at the moment, doing the Blades quest (Alex, you know how long it takes to do each mission section, I've defeated Dagoth Gares and got the Corprus disease)

Looks like we're stuck with phpBB then (not that I don't like it, I do but it seems to be the only free one around now:().
Mind you, there is [Snitz (http://forum.snitz.com/)], which nobody seems to know or care about.

I'll get my Eric review done soon,

Been too focused and addictied to Morrowind at the moment, doing the Blades quest (Alex, you know how long it takes to do each mission section, I've defeated Dagoth Gares and got the Corprus disease)I killed Dagoth Ur. I haven't played it since, as there's little point to play it after that:-/

I would rather we used phpBB for the forum, simply because I doubt many people have used Snitz here, yet many have used phpBB

That and that Snitz is ASP. So no.

I killed Dagoth Ur. I haven't played it since, as there's little point to play it after that:-/

I would rather we used phpBB for the forum, simply because I doubt many people have used Snitz here, yet many have used phpBB

I've got Morrowind: Game of the Year editon, it comes with the Tribunal and Bloodmood expansion packs, so after I'll defeat Dagoth Ur, I got all them Tribunal quests to do, oi vey...

That and that Snitz is ASP. So no.
True enough. I'm just pointing out the alternatives.

Just to let you all know, I've been absent from my PC for four days, this is due to one of the fans inside my Tower exploded/clogged up due to dust on the interior. I'll be back eventually soon

I've got the listings system to work now -- so in theory all I need to do is make an admin page where you can submit things that will generate and list the review/column autmatically, and then make a 'contents' (or perhaps 'lastest updates') and 'introduction' page.

But first I'd like someone with A Proper Browser (i.e., not IE) to look at this page:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/list.php?id=nologolist

preferably in a nice high resolution*, and tell me how wide the main white frame is. According to the CSS file it should be almost the full width between the sidebars, but IE shows it as a rather sad box in the top left because nothing in it is wide enough to fill that kind of gap. If it shows correctly in a standards-compliant browser then I for one can't be bothered fixing it to make a purely cosmetic change in one clearly broken programme. If it's doing that in all browsers I'll look into doing it properly.

*Necessarily in a resolution high enough that none of the links wraps onto a second line or nearly wraps onto a second line. If there's a wider blue gap on the right than the left Something's Wrong.

Edit: I think I have the submit-new-review thing working, but I can't test it at the moment because the members-panel side of my server's down.

Andrew, I'll catch you on MSN later today (hopefully) to discuss development of graphics.

You won't; I haven't got MSN at uni and I haven't got internet access at home. You could email me if you want, or post here. Or PM me. Or you could phone me, come to that. But there will be no MSN.

Oh, and the submit-review and submit-column pages work now, and are located at:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/ engelberthumperdinck.html (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/engelberthumperdinck.html) and
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/engelbertslapdeback.html respectively

...on the grounds that nobody trying to hack the site will think to look there. The column one at present has a problem because I haven't uploaded all the list files that it needs to function (edit: fixed). At present the only way to EDIT either is to edit the generated TXT files manually, but once the files have been generated, that's an easy job for anyone with the admin password.

Edit: Also, at the moment anyone can post anything as anyone else, but I don't think that's a major problem. Might even make things easier.

You won't; I haven't got MSN at uni and I haven't got internet access at home.
That's right. Damn.

In that case, can I have the needed resolutions of all backgrounds/sidebars and guidelines for what they should look like?

Sure...

The background tile can be any size you like.
The "avatars" for reviewer/platform etc, are working with a 150x150 pixel box. At present this includes several pixels' padding, and few more of black border. You're free to make larger images than that but the "base" frame thing has to stay the same size. If you see what I mean.
The sidebar frames are a table as follows:

[ TOP FRAME, 150x35. ]
[LEFT ] MIDDLE [RIGHT]
[FRAME] . BIT .[FRAME]
[ 10x ] . . . .[ 10x ]
[ ??? ] 130x???[ ??? ]
[BOTTOM FRAME, 150x35]


If you follow.

There's also a "shine" graphic placed halfway down each sidebar*. This is 130 pixels across and as tall as it turns out. At present that's 90 pixels. The top frame of the sidebar table is taller if the gG logo is included in it; at present that's 135 pixels, but that can easily change if it has to as well.

I suggest you look at a page from the site (eg http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/review.php?id=wfus ) to get a feel for what's in the images. A lot of them are table BG tags, so you can't just right-click them in IE, but you can save backgrounds in proper browsers. At least, you can in Opera.

The "CURRENT", "COMMENT" and "ARCHIVE" titles are all fairly open to change. They can't be more than 130 pixels wide (I suggest keeping to 126 or below; I haven't tried it wider than that and that's plenty of space for one word) but they can be as tall as you like.

Edit: And check my layout page, damn you! I need to know if that works in Real Browsers.

_________
*I like the shine effect, and it's the reason the table arrangement is so complicated.

I wonder if we could have a similar feature for the IRC logging bot? I'll make some enquiries about the bot side of the coding.

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE visit the irc chan: #gamegeeker on irc.gameradius.org

I could easily write a script that uploads things if you can get the bot to send them somehow. I don't know anything about bots, though. Simplest way would be to use URL arguments (ircbot.php?log=thomasp:+i'm+so+lonely+why+is+nobo dy+here etc) but I don't know how much data you can really cram into a URL. A text file upload form would probably work, too. (I want to write an image upload form too so people can post screenshots etc. more easily anyway.) I don't know what the hell POST does but maybe a bot could manage that.

Edit: And someone check my damn list page.

double post edit

Or, I could write a page that allows you to upload a TXT file and it'll add it to a list much like the reviews work. Wouldn't be terribly automated, but it'd be easy enough to do manually.

Today I wrote the Recent Updates script, which was in fact a total ***** to write. It's at:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/updates.php?id=updates

and the submit-update forum is at:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/cakeordeath.html

It comes into its own when it has multiple pages, but that list hasn't yet. You could add things until it does, if you like. I could make it show the avatar of the person who updated it, too, in theory. Shouldn't be too hard, either. At present it won't automatically post an update whe you add a review, that has to be done manually. That may not change; it's more likely I'll have it redirect you to cakeordeath.html when you submit something.

Edit: A full list of names of gG staff, with preffered username for updates would be useful at some point.

And SOMEONE CHECK MY SODDING LIST PAGE!

Edit2: Updated sidebar .txt files to more closely reflect gG's final appearence
Edit3: I'm thinking, in fact, of redoing the leftbar totally to make it more dynamic.

double post edit

And introducing: the image upload form:

http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/jamtrousers.html

(I know it's not much to look at, but it works)

I'm back, I'll get around to reading Andrew's posts, soon

Quick summary (mostly for Ev's sake):

We now have on the public side:
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ review.php?id=wfus (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/review.php?id=wfus) -- replace "wfus" with any valid review filename to view a review. These are linked by list.php files.
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ comment.php?id=tbg.psp (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/comment.php?id=tbg.psp) -- replace "tbg.psp" with any valid column filename to view a column. These are linked by list.php files.
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ list.php?id=platform.gcn (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/list.php?id=platform.gcn) -- replace "platform.gcn" with any valid list filename to view a list. These links make up the rightbar.
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ updates.php?id=updates (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/updates.php?id=updates) -- replace the second "updates" with any valid update list filename to view the updates. This is linked on the leftbar/frontpage.

And on the admin side (note that these are HTML files; they post data to PHP):
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/ engelberthumperdinck.html (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/engelberthumperdinck.html) -- submits a review and adds it to the relevant review lists.
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/engelbertslapdeback.html -- submits a column and adds it to the relevant lists (there is a list per column author but currently no link to it exists since nobody has mroe than one column and no column has more than one author).
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/cakeordeath.html -- posts a new "update".
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/jamtrousers.html -- upload an image for use in a review/column/update. Doesn't check filename clashes, so I may make it use a different folder for each of you for good measure.
http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ noahwhowasseanconnery.php? id=comment/tbg.edited (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/noahwhowasseanconnery.php?id=comment/tbg.edited) -- replace "comment/tbg.edited" with any valid text file to edit it and/or copy it.
new: http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/ runningjumpingclimbingtrees.php (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/geek/runningjumpingclimbingtrees.php) -- add an item to any list (this is done automatically for reviews/columns but can be useful for other lists.

Edit:
Still to do:
We'll need a full set of "avatars" for staff, formats, and columns.
Switch over to .gif graphics for people rotting away on MSIE with its ****ty PNG support.
Frontpage needs doing, but that could be HTML based easily enough.
Must add in any remaining staff who aren't on the lists already.

Doesn't need doing but would be nice:
Improved graphics from place to place. FutureWorm's "on" that.
I'll make an index for these pages with full instructions once the hosting's set up.

And the forum, but that can wait for a bit. If someone wants to have a bash at customising phpbb to fit the gG style, that'd be helpful but not vital (it could be a quick job once the hosting's sorted. A trip home for FTP access may be in order).

Fake Edit: killed a couple of bugs in engelbertslapdeback.php today and added better blockquote and HR support.

Very snazzy. I wonder how long before we'll actually be Set Up?

What's happening about the server?

Depending on the type of server (and setup package) that the site is running on, we may be able to have the IRC logging bot running off the same box as the site (which would make uploading the logs dead easy), otherwise, I've got to find another server and someone to code the bot for me...

AFAIK Omnis servers can support either ASP or PHP, or both if necessary. For example Fried is PHP.

I can't afford the domain due to my money went to help my relative out with her money problems, sorry.

I've been at home tonight, and have written the Thanks Username, Thusername script. In doing so I had to set up phpbb, and I've also been playing with that. It seems nice. (http://andrewt.freeownhost.com/forum/ is the URL.) I'm more than willing to use phpbb is I get to ban Energize with it. (Someone else can ben HellSheep if they want; I've banned him four times already; I feel it's someone else's turn.)

Improved graphics from place to place. FutureWorm's "on" that.
I'm sorry, but I'd have to do those as PNGs. Corel misbehaves with GIFs.

I can convert no problem.

Traxada, how are those avatars coming along?

I can convert no problem.
Very well.

just a suggestion AT, but have you ever thought of integrating the username system from the forums (in this case phpBB) with the rest of the website, like most websites do?
it's probably very complex to do that, but it's just an idea. you could use it for the comments and the reviewing system.

btw you forgot to put me in the reviewers. ok so i still haven't reviewed anything... I'M WORKING ON IT!

just a suggestion AT, but have you ever thought of integrating the username system from the forums (in this case phpBB) with the rest of the website, like most websites do?
it's probably very complex to do that, but it's just an idea. you could use it for the comments and the reviewing system.!I'd considered it but I've just last night got phpbb working at all, so I haven't been able to even look at it properly yet. I expect it can be done if I include the forum scripts into the comments one.

btw you forgot to put me in the reviewers. ok so i still haven't reviewed anything... I'M WORKING ON IT!
Luckily with my new system, it's an easy thing to add you. You'll probaly be in by the time you read this (edit: you are now and have been for a while) (though perhaps not in the list of allowed names in the html).

I've almost completed the Eric The Unready review. Need to correct some grammar and spellings though, you'll have it shortly.

I've added you to the namelist, thomasp, and I've updated the html files to reflect the espanded list (now anyone can review and anyone can write columns; though so far only two columns have been defined. Easy as pie to add more, though.

Apparently, you mustn't add spaces to the filename. It never really occured to me that anybody might put one in, but it appears to break the site if you do. I'll have a bash at fixing it anyway, but not just now. I have more important things to do just now than fix things that already work, like three seperate deadlines on Wednesday.

you might think of making the show/hide comments not need to reload the page everytime. like Fast Reply boxes in forums and such. there's probably some javascript involved to do that.

It should be possible to do that with javascript, yes. I know all the relevant code (my webcomic does the opposite already). If I do that I think I'll have to add a "number of posts per page" limit to the comments. Otherwise it could take a long time to load the pages. I'll just cannibalise some code from the updates.php.

I've added you to the namelist, thomasp

:D Thanks :)

When can we start adding our reviews? ;)


Also, PLEASE COME AND VISIT THE IRC CHANNEL - it's all cold and dark and lonely in there. Only tundraH and Star Worms have visted the new one. I'll get a logging bot sorted once the website is fully operational

Server: irc.gameradius.org
Channel: #gamegeeker

:D Thanks :)

When can we start adding our reviews? ;)
You can add them now if you like.

I've cleared everything. Might havbe missed something but must go now. Feel free test bye

:D Thanks :)

When can we start adding our reviews? ;)


Also, PLEASE COME AND VISIT THE IRC CHANNEL - it's all cold and dark and lonely in there. Only tundraH and Star Worms have visted the new one. I'll get a logging bot sorted once the website is fully operational

Server: irc.gameradius.org
Channel: #gamegeeker
I'm really sorry, but IRC scares the crap out of me and I've sworn off it forever.

I'm lazy... I've not gone into the IRC room for a while. I might pop in this afternoon.

I don't think I have an IRC client anyplace. Or a web connection, come to that. Only time I've ever used IRC was to wind up my housemate Stavros. Once he cottoned on I deleted the client.

I don't think I have an IRC client anyplace. Or a web connection, come to that. Only time I've ever used IRC was to wind up my housemate Stavros. Once he cottoned on I deleted the client.haven't you got Opera? it works as an IRC client too :)

For those of you who don't have an IRC client/Mozilla/Firefox/Opera, there is now no excuse not to come in the irc channel. On GameRadius' website, they have a (relatively) simple to use Java Chat utility. I haven't used it because it is incompatible with my archaic internet browsers, but SupSuper has just tested it out for me :)


Go to http://www.gameradius.org and choose "Java chat" from that page.

A new window should open, and you will be in the channel #gameradius with a strange nickname. To get into the gG channel, type /join #gamegeeker in the text bar. You should now be in two channels.

To leave #gameradius, select the appropriate channel, and right click and choose Close. You should now just be in #gamegeeker.

To change your nickname, type /nick <newnick>

To quit, just close the java chat window :)


Any problems, try it out when I'm online on the forum, (I'll be on IRC as well), and ask me :)

haven't you got Opera? it works as an IRC client too :)
Not at uni, no. The university inexplicably insists on using IE.

double post edit

It should be possible to do that with javascript, yes. I know all the relevant code (my webcomic does the opposite already). If I do that I think I'll have to add a "number of posts per page" limit to the comments. Otherwise it could take a long time to load the pages. I'll just cannibalise some code from the updates.php.
It is done.

Also I've added a simple index page [http://andrewt.freewonhost.com/geek], which does nothing but display some text, but it also has a warning to IE users that they should get a proper browser if they want to see the site properly; I intend eventually (DeadCode style) to have a seperate stylesheet for IE so that it will see GIF versions of the graphics where everyone else sees the real PNGs, and if it comes up its glitches can be better managed (but I've designed the site fairly regorously so far so cross-browser issues haven't really reared their ugly head yet apart from where PNGs are concerned).

Not at uni, no. The university inexplicably insists on using IE.

double post edit


It is done.

Also I've added a simple index page [http://www.andrewt.freewonhost.com/geek], which does nothing but display some text, but it also has a warning to IE users that they should get a proper browser if they want to see the site properly; I intend eventually (DeadCode style) to have a seperate stylesheet for IE so that it will see GIF versions of the graphics where everyone else sees the real PNGs, and if it comes up its glitches can be better managed (but I've designed the site fairly regorously so far so cross-browser issues haven't really reared their ugly head yet apart from where PNGs are concerned).the link doesn't work (unless you remove the www. bit).

just tried it on IE, just to see the warning message, and not a bad job. i also get to see the butt-ugly PNGs because IE refuses to display properly PNGs that DARE to use transparency (giving them a butt-ugly grey background instead).
i would've switched to Opera a lot sooner if most websites used PNGs with transparency instead of GIFs. though, there is a way to make such PNGs be properly displayed in IE (Greg Dean of http://www.reallifecomics.com did it), though it's a huge amount of effort just to get them properly displayed on one non-w3c-compliant browser :p

Seems like overkill for Real Life to do it -- they don't have any overlaps so transparency is redundant anyway. My comic uses PNG throughout and solves the problem by not having any transparency. I don't think I'd use it if I could, to be honest. No need overcomplicating the problem.

And I edited the post above to the right URL. How I hate those Ws.

Seems like overkill for Real Life to do it -- they don't have any overlaps so transparency is redundant anyway. My comic uses PNG throughout and solves the problem by not having any transparency. I don't think I'd use it if I could, to be honest. No need overcomplicating the problem.

And I edited the post above to the right URL. How I hate those Ws.

It's overkill for the current page, but the main site has a better use for it.

If this ever gets going, can we have a pre-emptive forum ban on Energize?

If this ever gets going, can we have a pre-emptive forum ban on Energize?

Yes.


Anyone got any idea when this will be going?

As soon as someone plucks up the gumption to get a host, I think. And once those pesky avatars are done. And not before the Easter holidays start, as far as I'm concerned. But then, like new Sky TV customers, I have a month free.

In the spirit of the original thread, he's part of a chat Daniel and I were having earlier today regarding my frustration about naming a gaming website I'm developing. The story starts when I discover that the domain for my already chosen name, YAGS (Yet Another Games Site), isn't available in any commonly accepted form (namely .com, co.uk orr .org).

[18:24:52] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: How does YAGN sound?
[18:24:55] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: I think it sounds crap.
[18:25:11] Daniel: indeed
[18:25:17] Daniel: what's it stand for?
[18:26:28] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: Yet Another Games Network.
[18:26:32] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: It wouldn't be a network, though.
[18:26:37] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: And it doesn't roll off of the tongue so easily.
[18:27:02] Daniel: indeed
[18:27:19] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: I was considering pinching Ev's "gameGEEKER" idea, but that'd just be mean.,
[18:27:38] Daniel: lol, true
[18:27:49] Daniel: shame that only failed because we couldn't get someone to host it :P
[18:28:37] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: Y'know what? I think we should do it.
[18:28:43] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: We could get Ev involved...
[18:28:47] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: ...I could revive the old thread...
[18:28:54] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: ...Cyc could host it, I'd pay for the domain...
[18:29:11] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: ...I'd knock together the basic design, you could automate it...
[18:29:16] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: ...etc. etc.
[18:29:24] Daniel: i think AT had already made an automated design
[18:29:32] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: He did. But that was over a year ago.
[18:29:43] Daniel: yeah, but it's still there, and it still works
[18:29:56] Daniel: anyways, only issue is informing Ev, he's hardly online these days
[18:30:15] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: I'll email him.
...
[18:32:01] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: Well I don't know his current active email address. Send him an email and let him know we're up for getting it going again.
[18:32:18] Daniel: you are, at least ;)
[18:32:37] Daniel: better revive the thread first and see if everyone's up for it
[18:32:52] Daniel: we have some content there to start, but we gotta hope it'll keep flowing
[18:33:39] Daniel: better check if the domain's available, too :P
[18:34:35] Ben / S2K [ Voices ]: It is. www.gameGeeker.com is available.
[18:34:52] Daniel: cool

I've tried to find Andrew's original layout, but it appears to have gone walkies. I'm going to knock up a basic design, which Daniel can automate, unless Andrew still has original somewhere about.

I want to get this up and running again. I want us to create a site which is not necessarily the Top Dog reviewing and game content site, but the best damned editorial gaming site out there. I used to write for GamePartisan.com, and their main focus was original content - articles, columns, the works. I want to do that sort of thing. It doesn't necessarily have to be GameGEEKER, but the way I see it, why throw away a perfectly good name?

Ev, if you read this, drop me an email. This stememd from your idea and I want you to be involved.

I still have the old design somewhere. If you want to use it on Cyc's hosting then I'll SQL-ify it and stick a copy on apathysketchpad.com for you to play webmaster with. It'll only take a few minutes to convert anyway, so I'll probably do it tonight or at the weekend.

That sounds good - we'll start from there.

Now we can finally post those age-old reviews we wrote a year and a half ago, woo. :p

Yes, I'm alive

Yes, I'm still fat

Ben/Dan/whoever else you got the A-Okay from me to go ahead with the idea. I'm willing to be involved in this, of course. Glad to hear you and Dan revive my idea, as it is a good one ;)

My idea doesn't mind a pinch, good for it to keep/stay awake :P

Here's a link to the review page:

http://gamegeeker.apathysketchpad.com/review1.html

It doesn't make much sense, because I've got to add in a footer with scores and things, and of course the review itself is missing at present, but all that's going to be added in soon. Once that's done I'll put up an "add review" page, then copy the whole job lot for the comment pages, and then make an indexing script. That should be fairly simple. Also, the database is just full of one random platform, one random developer and so forth, so it's a tad sparse and obviously all the data in that review is wrong.

It is PHP powered -- it just looks like a static page. This is quite deliberate, to make search engines crawl it more effectively. "review1.html" doesn't exist; it's just a cunning redirect code to "review.php?id=1". Obviously any changes made to the layout can be implemented very easily. I've rebuilt a lot of the code, so it's fairly modular and for the most part pretty good code.

Oh, and if you're in IE it'll automatically replace any and all PNGs you request with GIF files. Some of the GIFs don't exist at the moment, so if you see blank spaces, that's probably why.

Are all the links supposed to be broken? Specially the ones that link into the "images" folder?

Why make a game review site when there are already loads out there? What can any of us offer over the others? Am I missing the point?

Are all the links supposed to be broken? Specially the ones that link into the "images" folder?
Did you actually read my post or just see a link and click it?

The image links are broken because you are using an awful browser, so I've had it redirect all your PNG requests to horrid little GIF images that your browser can handle, but as I haven't bothered making the gifs, you can't see them. Use a proper browser and it works fine.

The links are broken because the site isn't finished.
Why make a game review site when there are already loads out there? What can any of us offer over the others? Am I missing the point?
If we don't fall into the trap of thinking we can make huge piles of money, we might just be able to offer a site where you can see the review without waiting for three minutes, clicking "Continue to the review >", waiting for another four minutes, scrolling down past four adverts, looking between two more, scrolling past another halfway through the text and clearing three popups, a popunder, and one of those fake CSS popups that's actually part of the page.

Did you actually read my post or just see a link and click it?

The image links are broken because you are using an awful browser, so I've had it redirect all your PNG requests to horrid little GIF images that your browser can handle, but as I haven't bothered making the gifs, you can't see them. Use a proper browser and it works fine.

The links are broken because the site isn't finished.I didn't say "image links", I said "some of the links on the left side link to pages in the images/ folder". Even if incomplete, I still found that odd.
Why make a game review site when there are already loads out there? What can any of us offer over the others? Am I missing the point?Well I'd like to see a website which doesn't just cover the latest/most popular news and games, isn't making some stuff up, isn't somehow biased, and doesn't just generically describe games instead of mentioning what's good and what isn't.

Looks good, Andrew :)

I'll like to see my Albion review, forgot about it. I'm up for reviewing old games which some forgot about.

Continue the good work Andrew.

"Why make a game review site when there are already loads out there? What can any of us offer over the others? Am I missing the point?"

Game review sites as of now focus on current games. So with this site, I'll like people to get informed of older games, so they'll think "gee I should have played that game, or I should have bought that" just a way to show gamers there are old classic games which are great, instead of the current ones they know.

This is a site for gamers by gamers, so people can accurately relate. Besides it's a idea where someone liked and wanted to pursue further and am glad for that.

Plenty of reviews of older games can be found using a search engine.

I didn't say "image links", I said "some of the links on the left side link to pages in the images/ folder". Even if incomplete, I still found that odd.
Oh, so they do. Well, those are temporary hardcoded links that Dreamweaver must have messed up while I was moving files about and it was trying to keep track of where I was putting them all and where all the links should point even though there clearly wasn't a file at the other end of any of them anyway. They'll need replacing anyway once we work out what pages we actually have.

Oh, so they do. Well, those are temporary hardcoded links that Dreamweaver must have messed up while I was moving files about and it was trying to keep track of where I was putting them all and where all the links should point even though there clearly wasn't a file at the other end of any of them anyway. They'll need replacing anyway once we work out what pages we actually have.
You use Dreamweaver?

:(

Who doesn't? :p

You use Dreamweaver?

:(
What? It's a good HTML editor with code highlighting, it has HTML and CSS guides in it, it knows what arguments I should pass to PHP functions, it can update files when I move them so they don't break, it has multi-file find and replace and it has FTP built in. I've never understood why so many people seem to loathe it so much.

I don't use that stupid WYSIWYG mode or anything.

What's wrong with the WYSIWYG editor? You don't have to write out P tags or enter style IDs, you can just select them from a drop-down menu. Plus your changes are reflected instantly, and you can turn on debugging colours to tell whether DIVs are in the right places.

Who doesn't? :pWell, I still use Notepad...

EDIT: Ooh, GameGeeker revival idea. Sounds fun...

... and would be a saner use of my idea for a manual article than Dream 17 (Nowt against D17, but my manual article would have little to do with T17 and hence the site's general tone).

Bickering aside, this is looking good. My only gripe with the design so far is that there's too much grey (I likes me some bright colours) and the sidemenu links are possibly a little bigger than I would like them to be. But, there's always the possibility of incorporating some kind of skin system. We can get that out of the way another time. Right now, the priority is a site that works, and that we can all provide input for and be proud of.

Quick question though - is that Game Cube controller a Worms graphic rip and, if so, what's that all about? Obviously the Man In Hat is just a placeholder, but is the controller supposed to denote the format and, if so, can we use our own graphics? (Phillby and/or Slick would be good in that department - wasn't Phillby supposed to do some Staff Avatars for us...?).

So far, we have an idea of what we need - Columns/Editorial Content, Reviews, and Interactivity (at the very least, a forum). Any other suggestions?

edit: Ah yes, a dedicated Retro Zone for discussion and reviews of older games.

Edit 2: Incidentally, here's a logo I knocked together before I discovered Andrew had the old design. What do you guys think...?

... and would be a saner use of my idea for a manual article than Dream 17 (Nowt against D17, but my manual article would have little to do with T17 and hence the site's general tone).
No offense taken, of course. It's probably better off on gG. Let's hope that gG takes off this time, though!

Edit 2: Incidentally, here's a logo I knocked together before I discovered Andrew had the old design. What do you guys think...?
Did you put that together in Photoshop, or what? I'd like to do a bit of tweaking. That said, I like it quite a bit more than the logo I originally created.

It's a layered PSP7 image. I can send you the original if you like. If you're on... well, any chat app let me know. I pretty much use 'em all. Failing that, I'll email it to you.

Quick question though - is that Game Cube controller a Worms graphic rip and, if so, what's that all about? Obviously the Man In Hat is just a placeholder, but is the controller supposed to denote the format and, if so, can we use our own graphics? (Phillby and/or Slick would be good in that department - wasn't Phillby supposed to do some Staff Avatars for us...?).
As far as I'm concerned, any and all of the graphics currently in there are palceholders. The pad is from Worms. I think it's a bit mroe representative of what it'll finally look like than a square marked "format graphic to go here".

It's the Cube pad from Forts, though, so nobody would ever know ;)

At the moment it doesn't support skins, but there's almost no redundant or duplicated code, so it'd be easy enough to change the look at the drop of a hat.

Edit: Also, I've got the indexing system working. There's still only one review and one comment article, but you can just about get the idea. I'd like to get a bit more ggcode in there, but the bulk of the hard work is done. Next job, admin panel to update it with.

Edit2: I'm thinking of defining a "regular column" called "Editorial" that acts as the sort of "front" page if nobody has a better idea. Doesn't seem worth coding in a whole seperate thing when what I have now will handle, archive and index it automatically.

Logo looks good Ben :)

We need to have wallpapers of our company name, GameGeeker. Was thinking for our staff/bio page, a picture of us, how we want ourselves to look. So something completely different to what we look like in read life as a joke and to fool the people.

I'm all for writing reviews of old classic games, as I've got couple of installments of planning to write about.

Best way you can keep me informed of this, is though email as I'm not really much on forums anymore, sorry!

Thought Philby was suppose to do our avatars too, oh well.

Was thinking for our staff/bio page, a picture of us, how we want ourselves to look. So something completely different to what we look like in read life as a joke and to fool the people.
That's a good idea. I like that.

At the moment there's a table in the database for staff, but it just has name and id code in there at the moment, and space for a password (md5'd, of course, so I won't be able to get your passwords). I could add any fields you like, really.

What's wrong with the WYSIWYG editor? You don't have to write out P tags or enter style IDs, you can just select them from a drop-down menu. Plus your changes are reflected instantly, and you can turn on debugging colours to tell whether DIVs are in the right places.
I hate WYSIWYG HTML editors, because WYSI so very rarely WYG, and come to that, WYGI not very often W other people G. It's so easy to mess something up in WYSIWYG and never realise, and pretty hard to fix it afterwards. Plus, the code for each page of gG is dynamically generated and spread across no fewer than four files, so it's not really practical to use the WYSIWYG editor.

Edit: I'm going to make the updating interface next. If anyone wants to test and and offer suggestions, you'll probably need me to set up an account. To set that up I'll need to know the md5 hash of the password you want to use (and, obviously, what you want to be known as). To find that out go to http://apathysketchpad.com/stuff/md5.php or if you don't trust me, Google for "md5 hasher" -- they're all the same.

Edit: Here's a page that can upload reviews: http://gamegeeker.apathysketchpad.com/admin/newreview.php

You can't really use it without a password, but you can preview things with it.

Incidentally, the reviewing system idea I had now has three parts:

Substance - gameplay, addictiveness, controls, replay value, general fun, etc.
Style - graphics, sound, music, storyline, atmosphere, etc.
Slant - similar to Gamespot's "Tilt", our subjective impression of a game.

EDIT: I've also come up with a name for a column I could write, for which "Manual or Automatic?" would be the first entry. I'd like to call it "Peripherals", and it would be on things in the gaming world that you'd probably never thought about before.

This is all fantastic. I'm going to chat with Kev tonight about space, and I might be buying the domain before the weekend is done.

EDIT: I've also come up with a name for a column I could write, for which "Manual or Automatic?" would be the first entry. I'd like to call it "Peripherals", and it would be on things in the gaming world that you'd probably never thought about before.
I've added it to the database for you. There's no way to upload an article at the moment, but when there is you can start playing with it. In the meantime, I've added you as a staff member; your password is "cricket", so you can play at submitting reviews if you like.

At the moment there's a ggcode tage ... which is designed to put game titles into italice and make them blue for good measure. Should I make them links to the list of reviews of games with that title? It would mean you'd have to be consistent with how you name a game (ie, using "Worms Armageddon" or "Worms: Armageddon" but not both) but it would be a nice feature, I think.

I like that idea. If a review doesn't exist for the game in question, though, is it possible to have it not turn into a link (if that makes sense - my brain isn't wired up properly this morning)?

It's possible. Might not be the easiest thing in the world to do, but I'm sure there's a solution, probably involving regexp's wonderfully versatile "e" switch.

I've added a way to upload articles: http://gamegeeker.apathysketchpad.com/admin/newarticle.php

Each column has its own list of authors, so I can't update Peripherals (except by having the database) but Paul can. Well, anyone can really because I posted his password firther up the thread, but once we get going we'll have proper passwords. Once we decide what details we want on the staff profiles I'll make a page to display and edit those and that will allow you to change your password. I'll add something to allow you to add developers and things without using phpmyadmin as well.

Excellent. I'll have to remember to use those tags...

EDIT: I was under the impression we'd be using our real names for gG, so can I have Paul Varley please? :)

EDIT 2: Are the heading thingies just standard <H1> tags?

EDIT 3: Wait, never mind, I've worked it out. It's <h1 class="section">

EDIT: I was under the impression we'd be using our real names for gG, so can I have Paul Varley please? :)

EDIT 2: Are the heading thingies just standard <H1> tags?
1. You can be whoever you please. I'll change you around.

2. You can use HTML in things, but it'd be more futureproof if you used gGcode, which isto say, [b], [i] and [url=...] like forums (except that links internally in gG are done in the same window and links to other sites load in new windows), [game], [hr], image url or image url or image url, [caption] for image captions (it also centres the text, so if you want a centred image put it in its own caption, sort of thing, and blah blah. The headings are done by making a seperate line that says "Section:the title goes here". It also adds in <BR> for you. I'll put up a full list of it all once it's all decided.

It just means we shouldn't have to go back and edit all the reviews if we have a major design overhaul.

Thought Philby was suppose to do our avatars too, oh well.
I'm doing what now?

I'm sorry if I've just forgotten, but I don't recall ever being asked to do that.

Righto, I think I'm getting there now

So I could type, say:

section:Introduction
This article will be about

section:Marmalade
Although I don't like oranges, so I wouldn't have it on toast.

... not that I'd actually submit that, you understand ;)

Well, no. Feel free to play around with it on the preview, though. Only thing about the preview is that the comment header image doesn't appear.

Edit: Hmm. May have to make the formats list and things expandable with Javascript. Otherwise that right bar could get far too tall. See how it looks when the skin's finalised, anyway. It's easy enough to do.

I'm doing what now?

I'm sorry if I've just forgotten, but I don't recall ever being asked to do that.
In all fairness, it was about a year and a half ago when we asked you, and gG had for all intents and purposes fizzled until this week.

Well, no. Feel free to play around with it on the preview, though. Yeah, that's what I'm playing about with right now :D

Incidentally, I asked Amy about whether or not she'd be interested in writing for the website - seeing as we're going to be mainly article/editorial based it'd probably be worthwhile having a semi-regular column about gaming from a female perspective - and she's all for it. She doesn't like the name, though, but that stems from her hatred of the word "geek". 'Nuff said.

What I thought would be useful when you click on one of the "Regulars" columns would be a little introduction as to what the column will cover, instead of just a bare list of columns.

For instance, here's one I wrote for Peripherals:

Peripherals
- The home of everything you'll never need to know

Introduction by Paul Varley

I have to say that on the gG team I'm often the one who holds the unpopular views. That's not unpopular in its standard sense of controversial or disliked, just things that the rest of the team simply wouldn't have thought were worth having an opinion about, like whether or not Geraint Jones should be kept on as England wicket keeper. This results in me volunteering to review games such as the otherwise entirely unremarkable Michael Vaughan's Cricket Manager, a game that no-one else on the team would have given the time of day to.

Don't worry, though, I'm not going to turn this column into my own personal space to rant about cricket, tempting as it is. That was just an example to show that I often think about things that no-one else would ever actually think about. I therefore thought that a column about the things in the world of gaming that no-one ever actually thinks about would be a nice way for me to contribute to the site regularly. I decided to call it "Peripherals" both for its peripheral nature and, of course, the connection with computer peripherals (the connection is purely linguistic: my apologies if you came in here looking for reviews of the latest joypads...).

So, here we are. Peripherals, the home of everything you'll never need to know. Why, then, do I think you'll want to read it? Well, I can't say for certain that you will. But personally I find that it's the trivial and the unnecessary that is often the most enriching part of life. You don't need to play computer games, after all. Think of this column as the roses people keep telling you to stop and smell along the way. Though I bet a lot of you are already thinking "or the manure that the roses grow in". But even then, without the manure you wouldn't have the roses.

Yes, I think my metaphor is now officially overextended.

I'm thinking of doing that for everything; if you search by platform or by column or by reviewer it'll have a brief synopsis at the top ("The Playstation is a grey box made our of the world's brittlest plastic"/"The home of everything you'll never need to know"/"Ben is a crazy person who lives in Luton because somebody has to"), as much for the look of the thing as for the utility.

Obviously doing that for all the developers and publishers would be a big job, but we can do it for a few of them.

Regarding the name. Amy's voiced an opinion about the possible negative connotations Geek used to have (and to an extent, still has). WorMatty agrees - "Aye, 'geek chic' and all that. But when combined with 'game' the stereotypes come back."

I'm starting to think that we may want to consider dropping the use of the word "geek" from the name. It might put off some people, and as someone who's going to be putting money into the site I'd like to see some positive stuff happening. This overall spirit of the site, of course, remains the same - unique, honest editorial content about games and the industry with reviews to boot - and I do think that, to a degree, the name GameGeeker gets that across. It's just some people will see "geek" and go "Eek."

Er. Yes. Just a thought (and no offense Ev - I know that was your name and I know that the idea of using the word "geek" is important to you, however if we're in this for the Long Haul we need to be realistic with regards to a name).

I'm starting to think that we may want to consider dropping the use of the word "geek" from the name. It might put off some people, and as someone who's going to be putting money into the site I'd like to see some positive stuff happening. This overall spirit of the site, of course, remains the same - unique, honest editorial content about games and the industry with reviews to boot - and I do think that, to a degree, the name GameGeeker gets that across. It's just some people will see "geek" and go "Eek."

Er. Yes. Just a thought (and no offense Ev - I know that was your name and I know that the idea of using the word "geek" is important to you, however if we're in this for the Long Haul we need to be realistic with regards to a name).
Hmm. I have to admit, when I read your last post it occurred to me that I'm not exactly in love with the name; it's not bad, though, and I suppose any name that's around for a year and a half tends to feel right. Also I'm a bit rubbish at names myself anyway -- I mean look at me; my forum name is my actual name and the only title I've ever stuck with for anything is "Apathy" and that happened by accident.

All I can think of to try and sum up "unique, honest editorial content about games and the industry with reviews to boot" is something involving the 'word' "re-view" -- it's a review, yes, but it's also taking a second look, and "view" is the comment; the editorial content. That or trying to use the word "real" or "reality" somewhere where you'd normally expect "virtual" or "virtuality". (It's such a shame "virtuality" fell out of common usage in favour of the somewhat self-contradictory "virtual reality", isn't it?) But I can't make that work and the first one feels a little "corporate", somehow.

How about "Real Virtuality"?

My original idea - YAGS, meaning "Yet Another Games Site" - doesn't really cover the idea behind what we want to do with the site.

Incidentally, I've written a "Mission Statement" sort of thing, again at the suggestion of WorMatty. It's not perfect, so if someone wants to flesh it out a bit they're welcome to. But here it is. (I've used the tentative name "Project gG" until we actually settle on a name)

I've not read the whole thread, just the word doc above realy. But from what I've seen, if theres spaces available, I want in :D

I will read through the thread to stop me asking silly questions now..

edit:
Ok have now skimmed the first 13 posts and read the last two. All sounds pretty good so far. If you cant get that hosting sorted I don't mind hosting it as long as it doesn't completely eat away at my bandwidth/space.

(I've used the tentative name "Project gG" until we actually settle on a name)
What was so horrible about gameGEEKER? Didn't we kinda settle on that?

I originally liked the name, but it's been pointed out to me by several people that the word "geek" is still a negative one with some, particularly when doubled with the word "game". We can stick with "gameGeeker" so long as everyone is happy with it, but personally I'm beginning to think we should go with something else - something that better gets across what we're planning to do with the site.

In all fairness, it was about a year and a half ago when we asked you, and gG had for all intents and purposes fizzled until this week.
I'd still like to help.

I like your mission statement, Ben, I can't think of anything to add or change.

Here're some suggestions along with available domains. All .com and .org domains with and without hyphens are not listed if they are taken. Remember that the name should be catchy and as reflective of the content of the site and mission as possible.

gamewise.info
great-games.info
gameright.net .org .info, game-right.com .net .org .info
vgtruth.net .org .info, vg-truth.com .net .org .info
Real VG - realvg.com .net .org .info, real-vg.com .net .org .info
game-guide.org (games was also taken)
gamegurus.info, game-gurus.net .org .info, gamesgurus.net .org .info, games-gurus.com .net .org .info, games-guru.net .org .info (I don't like these ones though)
My favourite in that list is Real VG, even before I checked the domains. It's what the site's about, and it starts with an 'R' so it's ultra cool.

I'd still like to help.
Lovely - I think you were working on STAF AVATORS or something along those lines. I can't remember.

stuf
Real-VG sounds good, but then again it also sounds like a herbal remedy. I like it, though. Anyone else?

What does the VG stand for?

Could I also suggest little images (maybe something like 30x30) of the consoles that each staff member owns.

LOL, you're right. I think it looks a bit funny with the hyphen.

Real VG

Real-VG

RealVG

I'd probably grow to mind it though.

EDIT: Andy: VG stands for Videogames

RealVG sounds good, and little icons depicting owned consoles / platforms sounds good, espessially if it support all the really obsure ones too :D

So it's all good. Is that the name we want to go with, people?

What does the VG stand for?
Vagína

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

FutureWorm:)

So it's all good. Is that the name we want to go with, people?Fine by me.

So it's all good. Is that the name we want to go with, people?

Sure

If changing the name to better suit people's feelings is needed, by all means do so.

Cool.
I'll buy the domain name when I'm able (possibly the end of this week, although it may not be until the start of June).

Consider getting a .org too if you can because this won't be a commercial organisation. You're already breaking the mould with the concept of the site, may as well start a sensible trend when it comes to TLDs. I'm a fan of .org. You could use that as the main domain and have .com direct to it or vice-versa. And if you're strapped for cash I can give you a hand.

We could get a Domain each...

Lovely - I think you were working on STAF AVATORS or something along those lines. I can't remember.

A staff list, what avatars you want and some idea of image size would be handy.

It'd be fairly handy for me as well.

Hadn't really thought about size; I suppose that would have to come after the layout (a subject we haven't really discussed much and probably should). I imagine, though, that you'd want to draw them much larger than we'd actually use them anyway, in case we ever want to scale them up. The last thing you want is to be stuck with an image that's perfect but not big enough. Probably a safe enough bet that they'll be presented in a square box, though as far as I'm concerned you should feel more than free to spread beyond that square.

as for design, why not each make a design in PSP or Photoshop or whatever people use to make initial designs (HTML is you like the simple, minimalist looks..[or just code inclined]). Take a screenshot and have a vote on which we prefur.

Once we know what we like we can adapt it to suit everyone.

whatever people use to make initial designs
You mean, a piece of paper?

Edit: See, it's stuff like that is why "geek" has negative connotations...

A staff list, what avatars you want and some idea of image size would be handy.
A human version of my sigworm would be nice, possibly holding a keyboard and/or mouse (whichever's easier).

That reminds me, tomorrow (well, nearly today) I must upload a photo I took of myself a few days ago for this very purpose (i.e. for Philby to have a reference to cariacature from)

um no.... I do layouts on paper, not designs. I mean by all means designs on paper is ok, but you have to convert it to a computer format at SOME point. If you like using paper, then use a scanner.

I recommend something around 50x50 and agree with Andrew's suggestion about the big-to-small. On an article, large avatars will get in the way, but 50x50 is unobtrusive and will likely fit in more easily. For example, this (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/css_concepts_pt5.html) is big-headed for a site of our kind, whereas this (http://www.webmonkey.com/webmonkey/06/20/index4a.html) ain't. Whoever makes any avatars will probably want to make them in a vector-based program so they can be resized without adding unwanted effects.

You may also want to check out the idea of Gravatar (http://www.gravatar.com).

mm, yeah 80x80 looks about right.

Consider getting a .org too if you can because this won't be a commercial organisation. You're already breaking the mould with the concept of the site, may as well start a sensible trend when it comes to TLDs. I'm a fan of .org. You could use that as the main domain and have .com direct to it or vice-versa. And if you're strapped for cash I can give you a hand.
Might as well get a .us while you're at it, they're all the rage at the moment.

Or do you have to be Stateside to register one of those? If so, I might be able to swing it.

Guess 80x80 avatars of ourself it is.

Right, as I now have the money to buy the .com and .org domains, can we all confirm that we want to go with Real-VG? If so, best to drop an email to my GMail address with a subject like "Real-VG = Yes", as I can only read subject titles at work and not the body opf the emails themselves. Hoorah for NTL's work firewall!

i think i prefur it without the hyphen myself. dont havetim eto get emailing exam in a bit.... will email later :P

I'm home now anyway. So... RealVG it is then?

I think we need to either all give the thumbs up on the name, or come up with a name we all like. I personally quite like RealVG, but then I also liked GameGeeker. So.. I don't know. Thoughts, anyone?




...Anyone?

edit: Here's a logo, to make it easier to visualise. If that helps. Or not. I don't even know anymore.

It's nice, I'm just trying to figure out what "Real VideoGame(s)" has to do with writing about games.

Bugger. We need a halfway decent name that's catchy (like GameGeeker was) and sounds good (like GameGeeker did).


Arses.
(As a general muttering of irritation, not as a description of us lot.)

gameplane (makes no sense but it rhymes:p)
plaingames (ditto)
traingame (I'm not very good at this)
gamestrain (I sense a pattern here)
gamestron (sounds like a robot)
gamestation (probably already taken)
gamesrever (I thought this was clever because incorporated "reverse" backwards in the name. And no, that doesn't make sense either. You'd probably also get people trying to get to gameserver.com)

d-pad.org is available, as is dpad.org. The .coms aren't. How does that sound?

(makes no sense but it rhymes:p)
There are whole websites like that already.

d-pad.org is available, as is dpad.org. The .coms aren't. How does that sound?
Sounds good to me.

Andrew pointed out that d-pad.org gives us a good motif for the logo.
Amy has suggested ItHasAScratchOnIt.com, and TheresNoInstructionManual.com. I'd laugh, but I suggest BlowIntoTheCartridge.com

...Yeah.

uuddlrlrba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_code).com?

uuddlrlrbas.com is taken.

SavedGame.org is available too

Crap. Well, I'm all for D-Pad.

JoypadAddict.org

And Amy likes IfencedoffmySimsandtheywetthemselvesanddied.com

There are whole websites like that already.
Andrew has hit the nail on the head. Are some of you serious about this project or haven't you grasped what the whole thing is about? We are not going to waste our time producing another general videogames web site, because there is no point if we do not have a single unusual or original feature in it. The world has its GameSpys, IGNs, blah-de-blahs, Christ knows what else. I suggest you read Ben's inspiring mission statement a few posts up (.doc attachment) to get the feeling of what we're trying to achieve.

I'm not gunning for my own suggestion, here, I just believe I understand very well what counts when organising, marketing and developing a web site. I believe that we should set ourselves aside from the usual crap in our very definition, and that starts with the site name since that's what people see before they visit it. It has to, as much as possible, indicate the content and concept of the site. That doesn't mean we must include the word 'game' somewhere in the title to make it obvious, it can be more subtle than that. RVG was suggested because people don't have time to read a three-paragraph mission statement. 'Real' is one of many positive and indicative words that quite clearly puts forward what a visitor would expect to see, rather than some flash generic-sounding name like gamesite.com.

d-pad.org, savedgame.org, yes they sound all gamey but imagine if you were a stranger. What do those names suggest to you? The former would sound to me like another general gaming site and the latter would sound like an abandonware site. I'm not being overly-critical here, I'm trying to break what some of you seem to think is important in a name and trying to make you see the simple facts. It's not all about having a catchy title or taking the first available unused name that sounds half-decent. It's wholly about accurate representation.

It's nice, I'm just trying to figure out what "Real VideoGame(s)" has to do with writing about games.
Well Dan, 'real' is a buzzword in the US and UK for the real, truthful, actual hard stuff.

The name is important but let's not get ourselves into a development rut over it. We can continue to come up with suggestions, but I expect people to argue for them rather than just saying Yes or No. Your impressions and opinions are more important than a straight vote.

I like RealVG. Personally I think we should stick with that.

Well Dan, 'real' is a buzzword in the US and UK for the real, truthful, actual hard stuff.That makes more sense. I'm all for whatever you people come up with, as long as it's short and catchy.

All right Dan but please feel free to post any names of your own if you come up with some. I admire your faith but I don't want you to think that your suggestions or opinions aren't wanted because they really are :)

I don't have any ideas, plus I'm rather occupied atm.

You may not now but if you're ever sitting on the toilet and mid-squeeze shout "Eureka!" then either you're insane or something just came to you.

Probably both.

As far as my opinion matters, off all the names sugested this one is my favorite:
gamestrain
It's short, snappy, intriguing and it sounds like a medical condition.

blowintothecartridge.com
Better than RealVG.

As far as my opinion matters, off all the names sugested this one is my favorite:

It's short, snappy, intriguing and it sounds like a medical condition.
And is not indicative of the site content and concept at all.

And is not indicative of the site content and concept at all.
That's what makes it so good.

That reminds me, tomorrow (well, nearly today) I must upload a photo I took of myself a few days ago for this very purpose (i.e. for Philby to have a reference to cariacature from)Whoops. Anyway:
27681

And the more I think about this, the more I think we should go back to gameGeeker. Who cares if it sounds a bit nerdy? We're supposed to be swimming against the stream with this site, people. If we want something that sounds different, we already had it.

i always though gamergeek would make more sence than gamegeeker but eitherway, im not overly sure of it. I think realVG is better, but also that there is probally something out there we not thought of thats better than both.

I suggested Real Virtuality but everyone ignored me.

I'm sure I replied to that name, Paul. I like it, personally.

And is not indicative of the site content and concept at all.
Does it have to be? Most sites aren't.

I'm sure I replied to that name, Paul. I like it, personally.I can't see a reply, but thanks anyway :).

Does it have to be? Most sites aren't.
We aren't most sites.

I suggested Real Virtuality but everyone ignored me.
Yeah I liked that one too

And the more I think about this, the more I think we should go back to gameGeeker. Who cares if it sounds a bit nerdy? We're supposed to be swimming against the stream with this site, people. If we want something that sounds different, we already had it.
We aren't most sites.
http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Video_Games/Console_Platforms/News_and_Reviews/

Games, games, games, games, games, games, games, games, RealVG, games, games, games, games...

I suggested Real Virtuality but everyone ignored me.
Also a perfectly acceptable name.

But I'm going to go ahead and recommend blowintothecartridge.com again, which is my personal favorite as of yet. It's quirky, it's unique, it makes people go "hmm, that sounds like an interesting site."

Could someone sum up what has been going on lately? As I've been currently gone from talking of our company, and am sorry for that.

Could someone sum up what has been going on lately? As I've been currently gone from talking of our company, and am sorry for that.
We've been bickering about names. We don't like any names at all, except for some of us, who like all names. We haven't got a whole lot else done lately.

But I'm going to go ahead and recommend blowintothecartridge.com again, which is my personal favorite as of yet. It's quirky, it's unique, it makes people go "hmm, that sounds like an interesting site."I'd like it if it wasn't for my childish urge to make a joke about it.

I'd like it if it wasn't for my childish urge to make a joke about it.
Except that it's blowintothecartridge. :p

Well, there are some people that...

...

No, I won't go there. Suffice to say, I like:

gameGeeker. Lovely and, in a way, affectionate. The only downside is that some people still connect the word "Geek" with your average loner/loser type person who spends all of his time in his bedroom programming things for his graphing calculator before logging in to his favourite IRC chatroom to make fun of Italian people.
RealVG. It's short, rolls off of the tongue is it's to the point. But it does sound a bit simple.
Real Virtuality. A very clever play on words, and it gets out point across. But it's a bit of a mouthful.
D-Pad, purely because it gives us a nice motif for a potential logo (as Andrew pointed out in a GTalk session). Downside? How many websites are there named after gaming accessories?

I personally think RealVG or Real Virtuality are the best bet.

The only downside is that some people still connect the word "Geek" with your average loner/loser type person who spends all of his time in his bedroom programming things for his graphing calculator before logging in to his favourite IRC chatroom to make fun of Italian people.
We could always launch GameNerder at the same time, and let Elliott run it, and then everyone would know what's that.

But then we'd be affiliated with Elliott. I don't want to run that risk.

But then we'd be affiliated with Elliott. I don't want to run that risk.
We could just tell people we launched gG and he decided to make gN himself. Who wouldn't believe that?

Lovely and affectionate? It's a stereotype, not a pet name.

The only downside is that some people still connect the word "Geek" with your average loner/loser type person who spends all of his time in his bedroom programming things for his graphing calculatorCrap, I used to do that...

:(

gameGeeker. Lovely and, in a way, affectionate. The only downside is that some people still connect the word "Geek" with your average loner/loser type person who spends all of his time in his bedroom programming things for his graphing calculator before logging in to his favourite IRC chatroom to make fun of Italian people.

Who cares? We're all geeks here, and we have nobody to answer to. We're about the games, not about getting people to like us. That's the whole point of the site, is it not?

Geeker I have no real problem with, but the "game" part is a bit run of the mill now I think of it.

Guess my idea of the name now wasn't a good one. :(

I like the name, since I've created it. Although I've had people ask me "so what games do you review? Monopoly and Scrabble?" so yeah, think the title of video needs to be included.

Whatever name you folk think off or go along with is fine with me, just keep me in this project, please.

It'd be a lot easier for all of us (including you) if you joined the discussion here, Ev :) Is there a problem preventing you from coming here? I thought you went off the project? Forgive me, I skipped a few posts to catch up.

Although I've had people ask me "so what games do you review? Monopoly and Scrabble?"Well, that's daft of them. Presumably they wouldn't think the same thing with Gamespot, Gamesradar, GameFAQs and so on.

It'd be a lot easier for all of us (including you) if you joined the discussion here, Ev :) Is there a problem preventing you from coming here? I thought you went off the project? Forgive me, I skipped a few posts to catch up.

Not so much problem as something else been happening. You see, I've made the mistake of signing onto eight forums, now sure it might not seem a lot, but to me it is. At times I forget to log in and reply to this or other forums as one keeps a grasp on myself. Went off the project? no, me and Ben currently reside as the 50/50 co-holders of this company/organization.

I'm a bit slow if you should put it that way of at times remembering each and per day to log in, nothing's wrong with me it's just things, forums, other stuff take up my time, I'm trying an effort to be more frequent here.

Sorry to not been here as of recently.

Paul - They just assumed games meant board not video, a simple mistake on their part. :)

You see, I've made the mistake of signing onto eight forums, now sure it might not seem a lot, but to me it is.

No, no, eight is definitely a lot. My "keeping up with everything" limit is about four.


Paul - They just assumed games meant board not video, a simple mistake on their part. :)Maybe, but if that's the case they can't use internet gaming sites a lot.

No, no, eight is definitely a lot. My "keeping up with everything" limit is about four.

Maybe, but if that's the case they can't use internet gaming sites a lot.

Four is a reasonable amount and just right. Smart idea for just and only four.

They don't, some don't even play video games nor go on the internet.

They don't, some don't even play video games nor go on the internet.So, no offence to them or anything, but they're unlikely to be in our target audience...

me and Ben currently reside as the 50/50 co-holders of this company/organization.
You do? I thought we were going for a communal thing.

So, no offence to them or anything, but they're unlikely to be in our target audience...

None taken, They're just a few friends of mine. However some do know of video games and the internet so am planning to mention our site to them to get them involved in reading.

You do? I thought we were going for a communal thing.

Think we are, I just like to say that :P ...sorry

I thought we were going for a communal thing.
Indeed we are. I think Ev is referring to a conversation we had where we'd discussed in passing who was "in charge", and I think there's a bit of confusion there. I don't think anyone is, really, "in charge". I had at the time considered myself an Editor of sorts but I don't really feel that's necessary now - at the time there was a sort-of internal "buzz" going on in my head with regards to planning, and in my mind I had already placedmyself in the Big Important Office. The moment passed however, I know we're all smart people and I'm sure we're smart enough to veeto (?sp) our own work.

No one is in charge. This is our communial project.

Indeed we are. I think Ev is referring to a conversation we had where we'd discussed in passing who was "in charge", and I think there's a bit of confusion there. I don't think anyone is, really, "in charge". I had at the time considered myself an Editor of sorts but I don't really feel that's necessary now - at the time there was a sort-of internal "buzz" going on in my head with regards to planning, and in my mind I had already placedmyself in the Big Important Office. The moment passed however, I know we're all smart people and I'm sure we're smart enough to veeto (?sp) our own work.

No one is in charge. This is our communial project.
Ah, sure. I understand completely. I just think one of the most important things about this project is the emphasis on community.

Also, "veto" has one e.

Indeed we are. I think Ev is referring to a conversation we had where we'd discussed in passing who was "in charge", and I think there's a bit of confusion there. I don't think anyone is, really, "in charge". I had at the time considered myself an Editor of sorts but I don't really feel that's necessary now - at the time there was a sort-of internal "buzz" going on in my head with regards to planning, and in my mind I had already placedmyself in the Big Important Office. The moment passed however, I know we're all smart people and I'm sure we're smart enough to veeto (?sp) our own work.

No one is in charge. This is our communial project.

Yeah, sorry, I'm a bit slow today after only recieving three hours of sleep, few sleep does that to me. Mere confusion is all. No one truly is in charge. Correct, we're all smart people who want to deliver gamers what they want, reviews of their favorite or what they played games so they can relate.

Correct again, it's a community thing which we should/will be proud of to do and make.

I think a good idea would be to put The Question Of The Name on the back burner for a while and discuss what the hell the site will actually contain. Granted we'll be reviewing games; that's a given. But what are we doing about editorials and general comment pieces? At the moment, it's set up almost like a collection of blogs, but I'm not sure what to do as regards a front page.

There was an idea a bit back about having a big "cover" image like a magazine would have. Who thinks we should do that? Should we have an index page with the last however many articles/reviews, or an editorial?

Of course, we might decide it's better to just have opinion articles than have regular (or at least, occasional) "columns", though personally I think that would just result in an unweildy archive.