I'm sorry Team 17 but I'm a bit worried about the Ninja Rope after having watched some more actual gameplay videos... Right now been watching this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-VZInoEptE) video in particular... Skip to 07:05 (7 minutes and 5 seconds) in the video if you want to see what I'm thinking about, even though it seems like he hasn't been playing any Worms titles in a while, it is a bit worrying.

So here's my questions:


Is it totally nerfed?


I mean it could be both a good thing and a bad thing. I'm not totally against it being nerfed, but when I have been playing the Worms titles, I would mostly use the Ninja Rope instead of using the Jet Pack, just to save the Jet Pack for when I really really need to use it, you know?

So right now it looks like you can't use it to get over edges like you could in Reloaded for example, where it was already nerfed but not too much.

I'm "assuming" that the scout will be able to pull off some sick moves with that Ninja Rope otherwise I'll be kinda disappointed...




Important Edit:




The "Ninja Rope" physics and look in Worms Revolution remind me of the "Grappling Hook" from Zelda - Ocarina of Time; which pretty much is used to drag yourself quickly towards one specific place. Below is a image so you can see clearer what I'm talking about:
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/zelda-items-clawone.jpg
Also, if that's not enough, look at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg-m1klg8Os) video. If you're not able to get over edges by using the "Ninja Rope" - I will think of it as a Grappling Hook which doesn't allow you to get over edges, which would feel kinda stupid as I'm against using Jet Pack instead of Ninja Rope, because the Ninja Rope actually takes some practice to get used to in most Worms titles, where as the Jet Pack almost doesn't require any practice at all.

Don't get me wrong though, it's cool to have a Grappling Hook, BUT- the Ninja Rope is very important to the Worms titles in my opinion, so it shouldn't be left out with bad functions. How it functioned in Worms Reloaded was bad enough in my honest opinion.




*Updating Thread with some cool ideas / Stuff that in my opinion would improve the Ninja Rope*
- 23rd October 2012




Ability to aim downwards with the Ninja Rope (Yeah; This is needed imho, forget about Dynamic Water for a moment, this is needed)
Ability to grab & drag a Mine with the Ninja Rope
Ability to grab & drag a Sentry Gun with the Ninja Rope
Ability to grab & drag a Electromagnet with the Ninja Rope
Ability to attach to a Worm with the Ninja Rope (Possibly a Heavy would be able to "grab & drag" a Scout for example)


*
- 25th October 2012

Ability to grab & drag a Crate with the Ninja Rope (Utility, Weapon, Health)
Conclusion that a functioning Grappling Hook would be nice to have in any Worms title

(Imagine hanging from your Ninja Rope and using a Grappling Hook to grab a worm and drag the worm into a mine field, then grabbing a Weapon Crate afterwards and swing yourself to another position to switch to Grenade and throwing it into the mine field, etc)
*

There are probably more uses for the Ninja Rope that would be nice to have, but these are the ones I've been thinking about lately, and I personally feel that this would improve the Ninja Rope a lot, make the Ninja Rope more fun to use overall.

If you guys have more ideas about the Ninja Rope I would gladly put them in this Opening Post so that Team17 can read them easier. Thanks for reading. :)

(Very funny rope video)
Ninja Rope Fail? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IOGW2gHhEgE#!)
(00:48 to skip intro)

Well, I think nerfing (...nerfing?) it is a good thing, because one time playing online WA I was obliterated by some guy who was just using the rope, and in this game you won't be able to make super-duper-complicated-and-overly-powered-massacre-moves while still having time to use a weapon. I think the rope in WA was overpowered, so I think it's good in WRev

I think the rope in WA was overpowered, so I think it's good in WRev

I quite agree.

I think the rope in WA was overpowered, so I think it's good in WRev

it's not that rope in WA was overpowered. it was that your skills were underpowered.

there is no "power" term for rope. a bad rope like in newer Worms games makes lots of game types unplayable.

super-duper-complicated-and-overly-powered-massacre-moves while still having time to use a weapon

it's called Roping with the capital R. there's no excuse of killing such an Art and fun.

it's not that rope in WA was overpowered. it was that your skills were underpowered.

Worms it`s not just about roping.

I got totally obliterated once on a game by bazookas and grenades, I think those should get nerfed too. It's not fair that people who practice can get good at it.

I'd imagine the Ninja Rope works differently for different classes, we haven't seen a Scout use it yet.

Worms it`s not just about roping.

but it's not Worms without true roping.

it's called Roping with the capital R. there's no excuse of killing such an Art and fun.

It's not killed. Play Worms Armageddon if you want to play Rope, but please play Worms Revolution if you want to play Worms without constantly complaining it doesn't support Rope.

but it's not Worms without true roping.

The original Worms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOQFJjHUJE&t=1m6s)?

No Rope.

I'm not sure what nerfing means but the rope looks good in Revolution.

I would also assume that the scout can zip about on the rope much better than the fatty can.

I think it's a shame that many people seem to think the Ninja Rope is in need of a nerf. One of the major reasons why the Worms series stands out from other artillery games is the complexity of the landscapes, but that only really works as well as it does due to the mobility that your worms have. Even discounting the ninja rope, Worms games typically have a ton of things that help with movement, from the lowly backflip to parachutes to blowtorches to jetpacks to teleports.

I feel like a lot of the more modern worms games try to restrict the movement ability of the worms more than they used to, and move the game back more towards the artillery genre. The games feel a lot more BnG focussed, but personally I feel like this is a mistake because it limits the gameplay possibilities and to me, makes the game feel a lot less unique from all the other games in the genre. It might sound silly, but at this stage if all I want is pure artillery gameplay, I'd rather play Angry Birds.

The thing that I find the strangest about all the pro-nerfers (yes this is what I'm going to call you) is that the 2nd generation rope already can be nerfed massively if you want to include it in a scheme but not have it dominate, you just set its power to 1. No repeat swings and a shorter length makes it only really useful for crossing gaps or getting up a single ledge, which seems to be exactly what they want, so leaving the same rope physics as before really doesn't hurt the game. You could make no repeat swings the default setting in the new games if the goal is on reducing the ninja rope dominance.

But most importantly, the 2nd generation rope is just flat out fun to use and while other games have hookshots I've never found anything that works quite like the good old Ninja Rope. I don't see why you'd want to get rid of that.

Having said all of that, I noticed in one of the Worms Revolution preview videos that the Shopper scheme at least has jetpacks with a humongous amount of fuel, so obviously they still want schemes to be able to give the player a lot of movement potential if necessary, and in fact i feel that the games have been a lot more jetpack focussed for a while now, so with this I can only assume that the jetpack is more prominent because it's easier to use and has a low skill ceiling so that it's harder for people to dominate others by being more skillful. I can imagine that this might appeal to a more casual audience if this is a design goal, but the newer games are never going to have as much long term appeal if this is your design focus. Maybe Team17 are OK with that? Who knows.

The original Worms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOQFJjHUJE&t=1m6s)?

No Rope.
I just booted up the original worms to take this screenshot just for you.
http://i.imgur.com/2xi4y.png

constantly complaining

i'm not complaining, i'm explaining things. lots of people don't seem to understand some very simple moments... :(

The original Worms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOQFJjHUJE&t=1m6s)?

No Rope.

are you even sure of what you're saying? if yes, you're totally false.

The rope works just fine in Worms Revolution, you can traverse the landscape very easily it just takes some practice. You will see :)

The games feel a lot more BnG focussed, but personally I feel like this is a mistake because it limits the gameplay possibilities and to me, makes the game feel a lot less unique from all the other games in the genre. It might sound silly, but at this stage if all I want is pure artillery gameplay, I'd rather play Angry Birds.

Angry Birds is nothing like Worms, but it's definitely possible to have Worms games without a rope and they are still Worms and hold true to the gameplay.

I have the feeling the rope was never intended to be as powerful as it is in the 2nd generation. The way it was *balanced* appears to confirm this. 5 ropes in the standard scheme, and collecting ropes from crates will grant you 3(three)(!)(!!)(!!!) ninja ropes from a single crate drop, which is a total overkill if you are capable of using the rope. I bet when Worms 2 was playtested by Team17 or whoever, no one knew what could be done with the rope (after years of training) and probably no one could even use it to swing over cliffs, for example. The rope training missions in Worms Armageddon consist of very simple repeat swing tarzaning with a perfectly flat ceiling.

I just booted up the original Worms to take this screenshot just for you.

Notice I capitalized the "R" like StepS did. I hope you are aware the rope from the original Worms is nothing like the rope in W:A and is ten times more nerfed when even compared to Worms Revolution, apparently. Best you can do is swing over, there's not even repeat swings there.

Notice I capitalized the "R" like StepS did. I hope you are aware the rope from the original Worms is nothing like the rope in W:A and is ten times more nerfed when even compared to Worms Revolution, apparently. Best you can do is swing over, there's not even repeat swings there.

The original worms also had pretty crappy physics. Doesn't mean the new games can't have better physics.

If T17 never intended the rope to be as versatile in the second generation, then why is there a Ninja Rope training mission on W:A that requires at least some skill to get a gold medal on?

Furthermore, there's no reason why they can't offer both types of rope on the scheme configuration, let players choose whether they want a more versatile rope for skill-based games, or if they want a gimped rope to play a more artillery-type game. Offering options is never not a good thing.

Well, I think nerfing (...nerfing?) it is a good thing, because one time playing online WA I was obliterated by some guy who was just using the rope, and in this game you won't be able to make super-duper-complicated-and-overly-powered-massacre-moves while still having time to use a weapon. I think the rope in WA was overpowered, so I think it's good in WRev

I got totally obliterated once on a game by bazookas and grenades, I think those should get nerfed too. It's not fair that people who practice can get good at it.

What I meant was that in WA you shouldn't be able to use a weapon after Ninja Roping because of the awesome tricks you can do with it, that's mainly why it was overpowered.

Notice I capitalized the "R" like StepS did. I hope you are aware the rope from the original Worms is nothing like the rope in W:A and is ten times more nerfed when even compared to Worms Revolution, apparently. Best you can do is swing over, there's not even repeat swings there.

I don't have the original Worms installed right now, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that too, the original Worms rope obviously wasn't quite as versatile as in Worms Armageddon, but it still has repeat swings.

Angry Birds is nothing like Worms, but it's definitely possible to have Worms games without a rope and they are still Worms and hold true to the gameplay.
I chose Angry birds as an example because I assumed everyone new what it was and how it played. Would you prefer if I said Scorched Earth or Hogs of War instead?

There exists lots and lots of schemes that do not contain any ropes in the second generation games so of course Worms can exist as a fun game without having a rope in it, but as it happens most schemes also tend to give you a number of support utilities based around increasing your mobility, even if it's just some girders. Mobility is a huge aspect of these games that I think some people don't realise, even when you don't allow the sheer extreme of being able to move from one side of the map to the other during a turn and still be allowed to fire a weapon at the same time. It helps the game support the sheer variety of weapons you can use without relegating most of them to niche appeal. It adds depth. At the other extreme end is the BnG scheme and honestly I'm not a huge fan of it, but hey, Worms is great because it supports all these different types of playstyles! (A fun side note, I once developed a scheme (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34815) where the strategy is all about restricting the mobility of your enemies as much as possible. It was fun for a while, but lacked long lasting appeal because the games always tended to play in a similar way each time and there wasn't all that many choices available).

The great thing about having the rope is the possibilities it opens up. In the 2nd generation games it's by far the most powerful movement utility for a number of reasons, but the fact that it exists isn't a problem. If your scheme is broken by the existence of ninja ropes, balance your scheme better! Remove them from your scheme if that's what it takes. Jetpacks are a good alternative.

I have the feeling the rope was never intended to be as powerful as it is in the 2nd generation. The way it was *balanced* appears to confirm this. 5 ropes in the standard scheme, and collecting ropes from crates will grant you 3(three)(!)(!!)(!!!) ninja ropes from a single crate drop, which is a total overkill if you are capable of using the rope. I bet when Worms 2 was playtested by Team17 or whoever, no one knew what could be done with the rope (after years of training) and probably no one could even use it to swing over cliffs, for example. The rope training missions in Worms Armageddon consist of very simple repeat swing tarzaning with a perfectly flat ceiling.
This brings up a nice point that I've never understood in these ninja rope arguments. Let's say that Team17 believe that the the ropes were too powerful in the default scheme for Worms Armageddon. It has 5 ropes and they drop in crates 3 at a time. Now it's time for Team17 to make another sequel, and they have a couple of ways this could be dealt with in their new game:

Reduce the number of ropes in the default starting scheme, and reduce the number that appear in crates, possibly also adding the feature of allowing people to edit how much ammo appears in crates.
Create a new rope that works how they intend, and split it out to a new weapon called the New Physics Rope (I'm sure you can think of a better name) while keeping the old one as a separate weapon, or a scheme option akin to WA's Super Sheep to Aqua Sheep option. Then, the default scheme uses this new rope instead.
Nerf the rope and remove its old physics entirely, leaving your fans disappointed and ensuring that every time you release a new game, the only thing people ever talk about is how the rope isn't how it used to be while telling everyone that your company is terrible and calling the competency of your designers into question (fairly or otherwise). For pages and pages. And pages. And pages.

For some reason Team17 chose the latter option.

Anyway I'm actually going to agree with you on two points. 1) I think three ropes in a crate on the default scheme is overpowered in WA and 2) I think the 2nd generation ninja rope ended up being not how Team17 intended it to be at all. But I think Team17 got very very lucky because with the Ninja Rope they accidentally hit on a mechanic that has caused people who don't even like the core artillery worms gameplay to buy their game and play it a bunch. They've stumbled upon something that gives their game an extended audience. Presumably they have sold more copies of their game due to an accident. This is a good thing. Why do people advocate throwing this away?

Notice I capitalized the "R" like StepS did. I hope you are aware the rope from the original Worms is nothing like the rope in W:A and is ten times more nerfed when even compared to Worms Revolution, apparently. Best you can do is swing over, there's not even repeat swings there.
Here's a shocking concept. After the first Worms game was made, it had a number of sequels that improved on the original in a number of ways. The fact that the original had a less fun rope is just one of the number of ways 2nd generation games improved on the original. Trying to claim that the smart option is therefore to revert the rope to be more like the original is pretty dumb in light of this.

----------

While I'm here I'd like to pre-empt some responses I think I'm going to get.

"If you like WA so much maybe you should play it instead. Also you should go marry it!"
I posted in this thread because I wanted to try and add some sensible discourse for people to discuss rather than the usual non-constructive whining. To be honest if Worms Revolution did not come with WA on steam as a pre-order bonus I wouldn't have bought it, but now that I'm getting it anyway I might as well see if I'll like it, and then discuss why I prefer the other games if I don't because I love this franchise and want it to have the best games possible.

"More options isn't always better! Many good sequels of various games have removed features and been better games as a result!"
I agree. I disliked Worms 2's level of weapon customisation and am glad it hasn't returned. It allowed too much customisation to the point that often you'd play a game online and had absolutely no idea how most weapons were going to act. I think WA's decision of letting you tweak the overall power by up to 20% either way works really well in letting you tone down some stuff that would otherwise be slightly under or overpowered when necessary while still keeping your expectation of how things will work intact. I also do not mourn the removal of a number of weapons in the more modern games. However, I think nerfing the rope in the way that they have is not one of these good ideas.

I don't have the original Worms installed right now, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that too, the original Worms rope obviously wasn't quite as versatile as in Worms Armageddon, but it still has repeat swings.
I think that might be Worms Director's Cut? I couldn't get any repeat swings when I went to get that screenshot. Maybe it was a scheme option though.

Anyway I'm actually going to agree with you on two points. 1) I think three ropes in a crate on the default scheme is overpowered in WA and 2) I think the 2nd generation ninja rope ended up being not how Team17 intended it to be at all. But I think Team17 got very very lucky because with the Ninja Rope they accidentally hit on a mechanic that has caused people who don't even like the core artillery worms gameplay to buy their game and play it a bunch. They've stumbled upon something that gives their game an extended audience. Presumably they have sold more copies of their game due to an accident. This is a good thing. Why do people advocate throwing this away?

Here's a cracking point: I honestly don't think Team17 is fully aware of the capabilities of any ropes from previous games. Bill, the previous community manager, has had people acknowledge several times he had no idea what Shoppa in W:A is all about and they had no intention in focusing the series on the rope.

So far for that. I was also surprised from what I am constantly being told since I've joined this forum; apparently W:A is an extremely successful game and the rope is the best tool ever. Gosh, I always KNEW Worms is not the best or most popular online game but instead something you play usually when you got a couple of friends home. W:A's online servers have always looked pretty dead, the people asking for rules while I couldn't even speak English were terribly annoying and me and my friends never figured what's so fun about game modes focusing on ropes such as shoppa. Admittedly rope race is a scheme I like to play occassionally, though I've never seen anyone in real life who would play Worms and be able to handle the rope. It took me years to get the hang of it myself and in a game that is supposed to be fun for everyone, an item that grants you massive advantages over every other weapon or tool but takes such a long time to master just doesn't belong in my honest opinion. I welcome the attempt of Worms Revolution to nerf the rope but not render it completely useless; playing Worms with friends becomes a lot more fun that way... the point is, I am almost certain the playerbase the recent games are mostly directed at are casual and party players. I'm also very certain this group by far overweighs the online community W:A which is, as I mentioned before, relatively small.

I agree the game needs a certain amount of moving ability and this is why I think you need a tool like the rope, I just prefer it if you can't cross half the map to all the map in no time and have this capability only available to players that have enough spare time to train how to use this tool properly for, like, years. The rope IS the hardest thing to get the hang of in the game and yet grants such ridiculous advantages over other players. I can't repeat that often enough.

The rope in Worms Revolution isn't even that useless. It's just that it's much easier to learn from what I have seen, by shortening the rope to its limit and above the Worm will automatically do a "super jump", which means the difficult mechanic of swinging yourself over is no longer necessary and you are still able to put the rope to good use as a casual or barely experienced player.



Sure they could add the old rope to this new game as an option, but I don't even see the point. By preordering you also recieve W:A on Steam, duncha. Apparently, emulating the old physics would be a very complex and difficult task, due to the new engine. Since the W:A ropers are as I believe not the primary customer base anyway I don't see this happening in the future at all.

I don't have the original Worms installed right now, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that too, the original Worms rope obviously wasn't quite as versatile as in Worms Armageddon, but it still has repeat swings.

No
I love the original Worms and I am quite aware of what you can do with it and what not. Tarzaning is not possible and the rope is generally limited in use.

Perhaps it's in the Amiga version or possibly the expansion (ie Worms Reinforcements or Worms United).

I was also surprised from what I am constantly being told since I've joined this forum; apparently W:A is an extremely successful game and the rope is the best tool ever.

I'll focus on this part of your post, because it is the most important part.

Look at this roping video (Worms Armageddon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ))

...And... (Both are pro-skill roping videos)

Look at this roping video (Worms Reloaded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpRt0MQmUA))

I do agree that the Worms Armageddon roping is extremely Ninja of the Rope, and the way I see it, the Ninja of Worms Reloaded is nerfed (made to be less useful), in the term "Ninja Rope" - In Worms Reloaded it's a "Clumsy-Ninja Rope".

Of course it still works as intended (hopefully intended) in Worms Reloaded, but it's way slower and harder to use in Worms Reloaded as opposed to in Worms Armageddon.




The reason being that in Worms Reloaded; (if you hit the wall while "rope jumping" = you will fall down "paralyzed" = can't use rope while "paralyzed" = if you were high up you lose HP = end of your turn = user annoyance)

As opposed to Worms Armageddon: (if you hit the wall while "rope jumping" it's okay = you can continue roping as long as you don't land on the ground and you have ropes left to use = very user friendly)

Edit(Scrap the quote above, it's been changed or my memory is mixed up)

Now, personally I'm okay with the Clumsy-Ninja Rope in Worms Reloaded, because it still gets you over edges, as it's hopefully intended to do. And it's not "overpowered" as many casual players would probably whine about. Although removing the "Ninja" from "Rope" does ultimately not make it a "Ninja Rope" - I think it looks like a Grappling Hook right now in Worms Revolution, only 5 more days left to check it out for myself. It's cool to have a Grappling Hook, but I hope they don't remove the Ninja Rope from this new title, that's my opinion.




Important Edit:




I encourage you to look at both videos again when reading this part; Worms Armageddon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ)'s Rope Racing focuses on "how much time you have used in your turn", while Worms Reloaded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpRt0MQmUA)'s Rope Racing focuses on "how much time you have left in your turn". Now, logically, Worms Reloaded's Rope Racing is extremely annoying compared to Worms Armageddon's Rope Racing. Think about that for a while, because this is very important to understand.

Annoyance in a game is not something you would want, you will want the functions to be "user friendly". Having the Rope Racing focused on stress is not something I would call fun in general. Although trying to beat each other's time is fun; without a countdown as if a bomb is going to blow your mind into pieces just because you accidently hit the wall while "rope jumping".

Personally I think the rope in Armageddon was overpowered, you could use it to get anywhere and practically used it every turn. I think the rope should be trickier to use, and not able to get you everywhere. Worms revolution seems to have done that. You can probably still get over ledges, it is just more difficult.

I think the rope should be trickier to use, and not able to get you everywhere.

Shout that here (http://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/) and you'll receive a blowload into your face from about 98% of people!
You don't take into consideration a huge variety of rope schemes, do you?
including races which became a plain **** after the new 2D games.
it's good for consoles though (played battle islands on PSP), but never for PC
Also we're not exactly begging for the true rope. It could still be an option for a few game types, as already said.

XRiZUX: there's an even better one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3JItjyKVPI

Look at this roping video (Worms Reloaded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpRt0MQmUA))

That's outdated, the rope in Worms Reloaded has gone through massive changes post-release.

The reason being that in Worms Reloaded; (if you hit the wall while "rope jumping" = you will fall down "paralyzed" = can't use rope while "paralyzed" = if you were high up you lose HP = end of your turn = user annoyance)

As opposed to Worms Armageddon: (if you hit the wall while "rope jumping" it's okay = you can continue roping as long as you don't land on the ground and you have ropes left to use = very user friendly)

In Worms Armageddon, touching the ceiling softly or any part of the landscape with enough velocity illogically ends your turn as straight colliding with landscape without touching any land after releasing the rope won't harm you in the slightest. The "paralysation" is there and can only be removed by first selecting a parachute after which the firing angle cannot be rechosen. It's not by far more user-friendly with this.

I encourage you to look at both videos again when reading this part; Worms Armageddon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ)'s Rope Racing focuses on "how much time you have used in your turn", while Worms Reloaded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfpRt0MQmUA)'s Rope Racing focuses on "how much time you have left in your turn". Now, logically, Worms Reloaded's Rope Racing is extremely annoying compared to Worms Armageddon's Rope Racing. Think about that for a while, because this is very important to understand.

In Worms Reloaded the winner is decided by how much time each player required to finish the race as in Worms Armageddon, though in W:A you will need third party tools to exactly determine the winner. Thus I don't really know what you are on about with this argument.

---------

Shout that here (http://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/) and you'll receive a blowload into your face from about 98% of people!

That video doesn't count. It's been recorded by either slowing down the game or use that other tool that allows you to perform every move pixel-exactly.

Also, say that elsewhere, in real world for instance, and get 98% to agree with you. Though I wouldn't vote for trickier, that already is the problem. Anyway this 98% is a lot more than that tiny 98% of W:A rope addicts.

Also we're not exactly begging for the true rope.

They are, just look at Worms Reloaded. Also something like a "true rope" doesn't exist.

---------

And it's not "overpowered" as many casual players would probably whine about.

As I mentioned before, the issue with the rope is its learning curve compared to what you are ultimately able to pull off after mastering it. It requires you to take a long, long time of practice to become decent at roping, presumably years if you are only casually playing Worms, unlike the other weapons or tools within the game.

Don't understand this wrong. Getting better at a game is a key feature to beat other players, however the rope gains you ridiculous advantages. Focusing your training on the rope will enable you to outplay the best of the best "BnG" or strategic players; the game is dominated by the rope (Of course, considering standard and common schemes). On top of that: the long time it takes become a good enough roper. Most people don't have the time nor the skill to manage this, not everyone has so much time to invest in a game and practically play W:A all day long.



Resuming my thoughts, the rope is massively disadvantaging the greatest part of the Worms players (target customers) and would generally be a bad concept for a game mostly intended to be played with friends or with parties (though I understand online takes an important role in today's time and age). A tool that allows for decent enough manouvers, which is easier to learn and doesn't gain you godlike advantages over any other tool and player is something I was hoping for for a long time to be quite honest, and I'm hoping this is what the rope in Revolution will be like eventually.

I guess that explains why Worms Reloaded is so damn popular online today. I swear, I can't load the game up without finding at least seven thousand games available to play, it's ridiculous.

Oh no wait, I never find games because no one is playing it.

I guess that explains why Worms Reloaded is so damn popular online today. I swear, I can't load the game up without finding at least seven thousand games available to play, it's ridiculous.

Oh no wait, I never find games because no one is playing it.

I don't see where you see this explained, however this is irrelevant to the fact W:A is anything but a massively popular online game, too. If the rope and its capabilities were so awesome surely it would somehow be recognized by other gaming communities, journalists and critics, but it isn't

That video doesn't count. It's been recorded by either slowing down the game or use that other tool that allows you to perform every move pixel-exactly.

i didn't say that it does count.

what it really does is showing the maximum potential which can be achieved in W:A.
try to do just the same in W:R (with tools, slowdowns, etc). you just can't.
physics don't allow for it.

W:A is anything but a massively popular online game, too.

stop playing at monday mornings and plan your time better, then :)
isn't this (http://puu.sh/1bDvK) enough? 110 on Sunday, if you wish.
also you should watch stats (http://stats.worms2d.info/) again. The red is Steam users if you look

I don't see where you see this explained, however this is irrelevant to the fact W:A is anything but a massively popular online game, too. If the rope and its capabilities were so awesome surely it would somehow be recognized by other gaming communities, journalists and critics, but it isn't

It's been thirteen years since it was released, and it's not particularly easy to get a hold of, nor is it really advertised anywhere. And yet it still gets more games going than a two year old game.

I don't really have the stats for the time, but I'm pretty sure the W:A was still being played two years after release a lot more than WR is today. It must be because it had an overpowered rope that scared players away... clearly restricting how people can enjoy the game worked wonders for Reloaded.

And yet, Thurbo, you're consistently and persistently ignoring all the arguments put against you.

You think the rope in WA is overpowered? You can limit its power and therefore its usefulness in WA. You can give people only one rope (see the Team17 scheme) or even remove it from the game entirely by setting ammo and crate probability to 0 if you really hate it that much, effectively making it never appear. All of these are successful tactics people employ in various schemes to stop people overusing the rope in schemes which are meant to be more artillery-based or territorial. That's the beauty of Worms - you can customise it. I haven't yet seen a satisfactory answer from you to this point.

In WA they struck the balance quite well (I won't say perfectly) between knowing what to expect of a game given you know roughly what the scheme is (ie you won't find any nasty surprises like the prod set to 200 damage), and having enough power to produce a massive variety of gameplay types. Additions in updates like ability to modify superweapon ammo/delay, have over- or undersized landscapes, and the ability to set the numbers of mines/barrels pushes it even closer to perfection.



In addition, it looks to me like you're also saying that it doesn't take a significant investment in time (years maybe) to be skilled at pulling off impressive grenade shots, for instance. In ANY Worms game, it takes quite some time to really get a feel for certain weapons, particularly fuse-based ones like the grenade (and particularly with a "no sitters" rule). I would argue that the rope is *easier* to learn - I managed to get a gold in the roping training long before I did in Euthanasia, say.



The conclusion you should take from this post: Maybe the rope in WA is overpowered for normal gaming. Maybe it isn't. But if it is, that doesn't mean it should be crippled for future games; it's easy to customise in Worms.

I wouldn't like to second-guess Team17 but I would say the problem is not that they crippled it intentionally, just that they didn't put a significant amount of thought into making the rope more than a vaguely usable movement utility - my guess is it was after the engine was written that they came up with the idea of implementing rope races, for instance. At the time few people (or nobody) in Team17 had played a 2nd-gen Worms game for a significant amount of time, and when the development of the engine came they just didn't realise that a good rope would be important to those who like rope-based schemes, or even that rope-based schemes exist. And now we're stuck with it - as far as I can tell from videos, Worms Revolution's engine seems to be pretty similar to previous 3rd-gen 2D games. They HAVE obviously tried to improve the rope for W:Rev, but in doing so made it radically different - the question is simply whether or not it's usable for more than basic movement. Again, I won't pass judgement until I have played the game; but judging by the fact that the engine seems similar, if you forced me to guess I would say it isn't.

But the rope isn't everything, and don't let anyone make you believe it is. In general, I (and others) find that the current engine is not as fun as previous ones, in that worms aren't quite as "bouncy" when explosions happen, for instance, which tends to limit hilarious mine/barrel-related chain reactions, and intentionally deflecting Worms off the landscape via explosions into pits or water isn't nearly as predictable as the Worm could just *stop* at any time when hitting the land. That's just one example, there are plenty of others I could quote.

It's quite possible, probable even, that none of this is Team17's fault - Worms Open Warfare (which if my memory isn't failing me was the first game with this engine) was an outside-published game of course. They were obviously working to a deadline, and could have simply had not enough time to cook up an engine on-par with their previous efforts. Then they've had no time or money (or inclination, since their games are still selling well) since then to start entirely from scratch with the engine. It's this that's making the recent Worms games lack longevity, in my opinion - the fact that the engine is not fun, predictable or solid as previous games, and/or the games not as customisable, for people to continue to find them fun after they've had a few months of online play and got through single player missions.




Apologies for this very unstructured post, but I've attempted to both address Thurbo's arguments and provide my own opinion.

And yet, Thurbo, you're consistently and persistently ignoring all the arguments put against you.

Same for you. for instance I did already explain why the rope is "overpowered" even on the lowest level and why the game concerning standard schemes is rather imbalanced, you don't appear to have actually read that.

In addition, it looks to me like you're also saying that it doesn't take a significant investment in time (years maybe) to be skilled at pulling off impressive grenade shots, for instance. In ANY Worms game, it takes quite some time to really get a feel for certain weapons, particularly fuse-based ones like the grenade (and particularly with a "no sitters" rule). I would argue that the rope is *easier* to learn - I managed to get a gold in the roping training long before I did in Euthanasia, say.

No. If you read closely, I actually said this:

Don't understand this wrong. Getting better at a game is a key feature to beat other players, however the rope gains you ridiculous advantages. Focusing your training on the rope will enable you to outplay the best of the best "BnG" or strategic players; the game is dominated by the rope (Of course, considering standard and common schemes). On top of that: the long time it takes become a good enough roper. Most people don't have the time nor the skill to manage this, not everyone has so much time to invest in a game and practically play W:A all day long.

Gonna enhance one thing here: learning to pull off shots in Worms appears to be easier than learning to rope, at least this is what I have experienced from people around me playing the game, familiy members and friends. A person playing Worms for the first time usually learns how to aim with the weapons in a relatively short time, while after months of playing still don't manage to swing themselves over a cliff. Actually this is what I'm witnessing from playing online as well. Aiming is never as much of a problem to players than half-decent roping.

Too difficult to learn + A ridiculous lot more advantaging than any other item, weapon or skill in the game = bad concept for a game that is supposedly fun to play with friends and in disregard of the differences in player skill.

The conclusion you should take from this post: Maybe the rope in WA is overpowered for normal gaming. Maybe it isn't. But if it is, that doesn't mean it should be crippled for future games; it's easy to customise in Worms.

Yet saying it is crippled is your opinion and your opinion only. Note this opinion isn't shared by many who are/have not really been in love with the rope or rope games in particular; note that the rope is not really something journalists or critics care about mentioning when reviewing a Worms game. The rope means something to you, it means not much to most people, some are even annoyed by W:A being more of a rope game than artillery. I am not much fond of these discussions, just generally shocked by the general disillusion of so many (former) W:A players trying to make debating points against the rope. The turn-based rope schemes in W:A are something practically no one cares about apart from some long-time W:A players themselves, and those are a vast minority.

Actually, on another note, read a number of reviews on Worms Revolution, Worms Reloaded or any recent Worms game and see how much they differ from the opinion of W:A (rope addicted) players. Also see how W:A is almost forgotten "outside" of W:A.

i didn't say that it does count.

what it really does is showing the maximum potential which can be achieved in W:A.
try to do just the same in W:R (with tools, slowdowns, etc). you just can't.
physics don't allow for it.

I'm certain you can with such a tool. I'm not sure what you know about the physics allowing it since you don't own, probably never played Worms Reloaded.

I'm certain you can with such a tool. I'm not sure what you know about the physics allowing it since you don't own, probably never played Worms Reloaded.

I own it, I've played it, and I agree with his statement that the rope physics would not allow that, or anything even remotely close to that.

I'm certain you can with such a tool.

no, you can't. The rope in W:R will not allow such movements and swings, no matters how you slow it down. just deal with it

I'm not sure what you know about the physics allowing it since you don't own, probably never played Worms Reloaded.
where did I say that I never played it? :rolleyes: roped for five days and then threw to junk, at least my friend now has a game to play with.

that's outdated, the rope in worms reloaded has gone through massive changes post-release.

That's not a valid argument; show me one roping video where the Ninja Rope was significantly "improved"?

Otherwise I fail to see those "massive changes" of the rope.


In worms armageddon, touching the ceiling softly or any part of the landscape with enough velocity illogically ends your turn as straight colliding with landscape without touching any land after releasing the rope won't harm you in the slightest. The "paralysation" is there and can only be removed by first selecting a parachute after which the firing angle cannot be rechosen. It's not by far more user-friendly with this.

Okay, "Worms Armageddon" - I will test it right now and see if it has been changed, then return here to edit for a more accurate response.

(Edit)

Okay, congratulations, you were right. It's either changed or my memory is mixed up somehow.

(Edit2)

I got curious about if this has indeed been changed or if it's just my memory that's gone wrong, or mixed up somehow. So I watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ) again, and at 0:30 (30 seconds into the video) he either accidently hit the wall or he did that on purpose to save some time. Notice how he does not use any parachute, but somehow successfully ropes his way to glory.


In worms reloaded the winner is decided by how much time each player required to finish the race as in worms armageddon, though in w:a you will need third party tools to exactly determine the winner. Thus i don't really know what you are on about with this argument.

---------

Third party tools or not, the point was that Worms Armageddon's Rope Racing is superior to Worms Reloaded's Rope Racing. Please watch the videos again, and read over one more time if you did not understand.


as i mentioned before, the issue with the rope is its learning curve compared to what you are ultimately able to pull off after mastering it. It requires you to take a long, long time of practice to become decent at roping, presumably years if you are only casually playing worms, unlike the other weapons or tools within the game.

Don't understand this wrong. Getting better at a game is a key feature to beat other players, however the rope gains you ridiculous advantages. Focusing your training on the rope will enable you to outplay the best of the best "bng" or strategic players; the game is dominated by the rope (of course, considering standard and common schemes). On top of that: The long time it takes become a good enough roper. Most people don't have the time nor the skill to manage this, not everyone has so much time to invest in a game and practically play w:a all day long.



Resuming my thoughts, the rope is massively disadvantaging the greatest part of the worms players (target customers) and would generally be a bad concept for a game mostly intended to be played with friends or with parties (though i understand online takes an important role in today's time and age). A tool that allows for decent enough manouvers, which is easier to learn and doesn't gain you godlike advantages over any other tool and player is something i was hoping for for a long time to be quite honest, and i'm hoping this is what the rope in revolution will be like eventually.

In Worms Armageddon, the learning curve of using the rope takes about a week, that's to use the rope for anything you would need in a normal Worms match. It's close to perfection in my opinion.

While in Worms Reloaded, it's not the learning curve that is the issue, it's that it starts bouncing at high velocity suddenly. Not only that but as I've said before, it's less user friendly. It's more annoying to use.

Focusing your training on the rope will enable you to outplay the best of the best "BnG" or strategic playersThere is no rope in BnG. And the best strategic players all know how to rope.

After months of playing still don't manage to swing themselves over a cliff
Maybe in Reloaded. In WA it definitely doesn't take months to learn how to swing over a ledge. Playing online, that might take a week.. or as little as one game. A couple months is enough time to be quite good at the rope... good enough to play wxw shoppers for example. You have to play with good players to get good quickly though.. just playing offline with friends when you're all drunk and stoned, you might never learn how to rope.

The rope is "overpowered" even on the lowest level.Try playing a game of Kaos.

..a game that is supposedly fun to play with friends and in disregard of the differences in player skill. What game in the universe is fun for two players of way different levels of skill?? Why should that be the goal? It's a bad thing when a game's learning curve is too shallow - it gives people no reason to continue playing after they've maxed their skills.

The turn-based rope schemes in W:A are something practically no one cares about apart from some long-time W:A players themselves, and those are a vast minority. Make up your mind! You've said in many threads that the only scheme played in WA is shopper. You were wrong about that too, but nevertheless shopper is very popular, so its obviously a lot more than a "vast minority of some long-time WA players" who care about the rope schemes.

The rope is not really something journalists or critics care about mentioning when reviewing a Worms game.Most journalists have played the game for 15 minutes and have no flippin idea what they're talking about. Why should we care about their opinions? The people who actually play worms games are those whose opinions we should care about.


I'm starting to think you're employed by Team17 as a paid forum troll / propagandist / misinformation artist...

He's not paid, he's just that obtuse.

Most journalists have played the game for 15 minutes and have no flippin idea what they're talking about. Why should we care about their opinions? The people who actually play worms games are those whose opinions we should care about.

Because the people that buy the new games don't care about W:A for the most part. Many people also play W:A and think "What is this? Turn-based ninja racing? Shoppa? How is that fun?" (Like most people I know actually) or they don't even get to the point as they are kicked from any lobbies. Other games teach you how to play certain things when you go online, even when it's a mod, in W:A it's very important that people help new players to understand those schemes. That's something that doesn't happen.

The rope example goes for standard common schemes. Of course since there is no rope in a scheme like BnG the rope is not overpowered, what the hell are you thinking. Anyway this makes your debating points completely nugatory. Thank you for your input.

And yes, Worms is a party game. It's said on so many sites and by so many people; it's supposed to be fun no matter who plays against who. Because of the ridiculous advantages the rope grants experienced players it often kills the fun. Seeing how someone gets from one point of the map to the other and you can't do anything about it? You can't even pull such moves off yourself? Not fun.

Lastly, the W:A players are the minority I am talking about. Not a long-time players minority. Just look at any place outside of W:A and see what people actually care. Seriously, no one does care. Most especially not in real life, there is no one who remembers Worms especially for the rope. It appears to be some sort of an internet-phenomenon. When reviewers review Worms games, they do not say "hey but with the rope you can't play races" and give it a 4/10 as a result. That's completely ridiculous, but that's something you refuse to understand.

Yes thurbo, a thirteen year old game that isn't really easily available for purchase today nor advertised any more only has a small community that doesn't want to bother with new people. So? That doesn't mean that the same game if released today would present the same situation to new people, nor does it mean it wouldn't be popular with anyone other than a small niche audience.

Get it trough your head, Worms Armageddon IS AN OLD GAME. All the problems you mention are a direct cause of it's age and how little new people it brings in due to it being a FREAKING OLD GAME.

Would you have said the same about the original starcraft? "Oh, only e-sports people would buy Starcraft 2 because only they play the original starcraft today! No one else would care about a new Starcraft game unless it was like a social facebook game or something." <- That's your retarded logic in a nutshell.

Yes thurbo, a thirteen year old game that isn't really easily available for purchase today nor advertised any more only has a small community that doesn't want to bother with new people. So? That doesn't mean that the same game if released today would present the same situation to new people, nor does it mean it wouldn't be popular with anyone other than a small niche audience.

Get it trough your head, Worms Armageddon IS AN OLD GAME. All the problems you mention are a direct cause of it's age and how little new people it brings in due to it being a FREAKING OLD GAME.

Most of the problems originate from the blowload of different schemes that barely anyone could get up with, and the fact that players don't want to bother with new people and the schemes that contain rules are not properly explained anywhere.

However, that's nothing to do with the topic, and wasn't my point either.

you have said the same about the original starcraft? "Oh, only e-sports people would buy Starcraft 2 because only they play the original starcraft today! No one else would care about a new Starcraft game unless it was like a social facebook game or something." <- That's your retarded logic in a nutshell.

It's actually the other way round. Most e-sports people dislike the changes in StarCraft II. I'd never have said such a thing, that's ridiculous.

My logic is as follows: W:A players dislike the changes in the new games and therefore non-stop complain, tho it's only an opinion and it's not looking like this will ever change.

Most of the problems originate from the blowload of different schemes that barely anyone could get up with, and the fact that players don't want to bother with new people and the schemes that contain rules are not properly explained anywhere.

Sigh. (http://worms2d.info/Schemes) And before you ask, yes, there were similar resources before W2D arrived, nanacide being the main one I remember.

However, that's nothing to do with the topic, and wasn't my point either.



It's actually the other way round. Most e-sports people dislike the changes in StarCraft II. I'd never have said such a thing, that's ridiculous.

My logic is as follows: W:A players dislike the changes in the new games and therefore non-stop complain, tho it's only an opinion and it's not looking like this will ever change.

I think his point is, many existing Worms players would like WA physics a lot better if they actually played it, but nobody* plays it/knows about it because the game isn't sold anywhere obvious (eg a game shop, individually on Steam, etc.) or advertised.

Just because comparatively few people play a game any more doesn't mean it's not worth making a sequel for it, if it's a good game, that's more similar to it than to other games. Just look at the 2D Mario games for instance - New Super Mario Bros. if I'm remembering my history was the first original 2D Mario game since SMW.

*By which I mean no 3rd-gen Worms players, to certain statistical margins of error.

My logic is as follows: W:A players dislike the changes in the new games and therefore non-stop complain, tho it's only an opinion and it's not looking like this will ever change.

why not satisfying them then? :) an illness will never stop if you don't cure it

I think his point is, many existing Worms players would like WA physics a lot better if they actually played it, but nobody* plays it/knows about it because the game isn't sold anywhere obvious (eg a game shop, individually on Steam, etc.) or advertised.


This.

The people you've talked to obviously have never given W:A a fair shot. My guess is most of them are around 12-16 years old and have only experienced the new games, and thus have no idea why they are comparatively terrible.

Same goes with your comments about "journalists". Obviously if they played W:A on the state it is today, they would be put off by the somewhat hostile existing community. But if W:A as it is now was just released today for the first time, and they had the opportunity to review the game as if it was new, playing with other new users, I'm pretty damn confident the game would get much better reviews than any of the recent worms games have obtained. Because it is the better game.

My point is that, if T17's design philosophy stuck closer to that of W:A's (including the more recent ideas implemented by Deadcode), their new games would definitely sell more, and they wouldn't really alienate new users. And the games would live a lot longer. How can you possibly be content with the performance of the recent games? Are you really happy with games that only last between six months and a year before losing practically all activity due to a lack of replayability?

My logic is as follows: W:A players dislike the changes in the new games and therefore non-stop complain, tho it's only an opinion and it's not looking like this will ever change.It's not only an opinion.

WA - 13 years and going strong.
All Worms games since - dead within a year.

I don't think the WA community is any more hostile than other communities.

A lot of the old-schoolers have showed remarkable interest in the new upcoming title and I think a fair amount are gonna give it a go.
I kinda feel bad about telling them about this game though, they are gonna rip me to shreds after the release :p

What makes WA stand out is the functionality. Worms Rev doesn't have that. With every new game, and every update to the look of the game, it becomes increasingly hard for players to adjust it to their own insights. W:A is totally flat. This makes it suited for non-professional designers to add their own content. W:A players make their own flags, graves, landscapes, schemes, etc.etc.
In Worms: Rev all the goodies are 3D. It takes real skill to make those, and apart from T17 I don't think there's more than 3 people who can. Logically, playing with your own designed graves and goodies was taken out.

Worms: Rev goes even one step further than Reloaded. Due to the 3D'ish appearance of the maps I'm afraid that the only thing you can create in the level editor are landscapes in the vein of the ones that are already in the game. And when that's not the case... the mixture of totally flat custom maps with 3d worms is just gonna look weird.

As much as all the new features are fun and the game looks better, the re-play value isn't as great as the W2-WA-WWP series. Add to that the seemingly simple online servers and rankings and the absence of a dedicated 'updater'... W:Rev isn't likely to last any longer than the previous titles.

Even a supercool rope wouldn't really fix that.

I'll say it again, what the series needs is something like Age of Empires Online.

It's not only an opinion.

WA - 13 years and going strong.
All Worms games since - dead within a year.

Actually Worms World Party was alive and kicking for a lot longer than a year (it's probably dead now though, haven't checked recently) - which serves only to further demonstrate your point as WWP is very similar to WA ;)

Sigh. (http://worms2d.info/Schemes) And before you ask, yes, there were similar resources before W2D arrived, nanacide being the main one I remember.

Great source, absolutely. English and seperate from the game, simply amazing.

think his point is, many existing Worms players would like WA physics a lot better if they actually played it, but nobody* plays it/knows about it because the game isn't sold anywhere obvious (eg a game shop, individually on Steam, etc.) or advertised..

Almost everyone I was hooking up with to play W:A since it released on Steam already stopped playing it for various reasons, some actually dislike the physics.

That stuff happens.

It's not only an opinion.

WA - 13 years and going strong.
All Worms games since - dead within a year.

All? I don't know about a single one, though I can't tell for most of the console versions. Looking at constant YouTube uploads however at least Worms 2: Armageddon seems to have an active community, that makes approximately 3 years until now. The iPhone version of this game (heck, it's a mobile phone version) is pretty active which I can tell from daily updating leaderboards and I'm playing it myself, it's also continuously been in the most purchased list of iPhone games. Worms Reloaded and Worms Battle Islands are still active, Worms Open Warfare 2 was a popular game until the servers were shut down for the PSP version and the DS version died in 2010, and most interestingly even the 3D games have had an active community for 7 - 9 years (servers were shut down yet again). And, as said before, WWP also lasted for a long time but as far as I remember died a couple of years ago, perhaps around 2008/9?

What Worms game with an online mode died within a year exactly?

And, as said before, WWP also lasted for a long time but as far as I remember died a couple of years ago, perhaps around 2008/9?

What Worms game with an online mode died within a year exactly?

none of the Worms games (except maybe Worms 2 and Forts) has "died" actually. the WWP's activity today is 5-6 people in evenings at best, with an average of 2-3 people in the afternoon. most of the games have at least 1 or 2 visitors per day.
around 2008/9 only one thing has changed - the Team17 IP. the WWP had a prescribed IP address which worked for over years but got changed, and not everyone is aware of it nor do they know it can be fixed.
also WWP didn't get any updates and isn't fully compatible with the newest systems, however I made it possible by using a wrapper and doing a bunch of tweaks here (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57848)

I would hazard a guess that Worms 2's relative deadness is caused by it having palette issues on W7 with no obvious workaround (not saying there's no workaround, just it's hardish to find) combined with the issue of getting online to work to be black magic in nature due to the lack of ability to force IPs and the weird port forwarding.

W4M (and possibly WFUS and W3D) have recently been force-killed off ;)

Simple solution to this.

Have two rope weapons with different physics.

One that acts like the current, and one that acts like w2/wa.

This thread is toast. Mods should lock it. Totally off-topic and unreadable. Only 2 more days and we get to find out what happened to the rope. I just pray that, somehow, we can still go upside down on it.

Well the ninja rope in Worms Revolution is a load of meh.

Seriously.

It is so nice to see that Thurbo is not only on the Steam forums, but on Team17's as well. I've already debated with him back and forth (incessantly) why Reloaded was a piece of crap, yet he kept making claims that Reloaded was "more balanced" than W:A and that the rope is absolutely fine. What a load of crap. (It's also interesting that I have never once seen Thurbo on WormNET... but I'm sure most people who play W:A know who I am.)

Reloaded was a decent game in its own right, but compared to W:A, it was a turd for a huge number of reasons that have and have not been addressed in this thread. Needless to say, I was very unhappy with it.

I pre-ordered Revolution and just installed it a moment ago to test it out. I literally laughed. I can't even get past the training stage because the polygons that compose both the worms AND the landscape are not showing up at all. All I can see is the background, the hats of the enemy worms, rats, and some various other crap. The game is literally unplayable right now, and I've adjusted video settings and all of that. Another epic fail from Team17.

I think that I am just going to have to accept the fact that T17 is never going to make a better game than W:A, and that their new titles will be so full of bugs and obvious problems that supporting them in the future would be a waste of my time, unless it was to support the continuing existence of WormNET.

Truly sad, I tell you.

Well the ninja rope in Worms Revolution is a load of meh.

Seriously.

Yeah...it isn't feeling too good from the few times i've used it. I think the huge issue is all the slack it's given, so it's constantly bending. Which makes no sense, phsics wise. Obviously the old one didn't make complete sense either. However, it seems like they went from 1 extreme to another, except now it's just not fun, and lacks versatility in it's use. Now it's literally just to get across a gap, which is harder to do than before.

Why? Because the rope loses any sort of momentum. It's not realistic. If you have a heavy object on the end of a rope, the rope should remain tight, but in this game the rope remains taut most of the time. The only time the rope should be taut is when you are coming back from the peak of your swing, much like it does when you swing on a swingset.

That's the problem. Swinging back and forth should gain momentum. Letting you swing further and further, and with enough momentum and force, to swing in a full loop. It doesn't work like that here. That seems impossible. Just swinging back and forth seems to do close to nothing.

Making the rope now effectively near useless for any sort of maneuvering other than barely making it across a gap.

If they wanted to make the W2:A rope more realistic, good for them. But this isn't realistic either. Now it just has physics to it, physics which aren't realistic. The rope should remain tight until the peak of your swing, when your weight begins to shift in the other direction. Then and only then should it bend at all. All other time is should be straight like the W2:A rope.

The rope in Worms Revolution is horrible I agree its the worst rope in a 2D worms game.

i don't mind if it doesn't fling worms around like crazy (i've noticed the physics are toned down in general like in reloaded).. but i can't even use it for simple tasks like getting up a hill. it has a very draggy feeling and it's almost completely useless if there's nothing high above you to latch on to.

i'm also disappointed it can't latch on to physics objects.

I really glad if this mega power rope is gone. For my it kill all fun from game. All this shopa, ropa is not worms anymore in my opinion.

The rope in Worms Revolution is horrible I agree its the worst rope in a 2D worms game.

Yeah, the rope sucks, but it's just so you have the opportunity to drown other worms. ;) That's the only reason why I'm going to be accepting the huge Ninja Rope nerf for this title.

Agreed. But it's not the only weapon that seems to do exactly the opposite as I intend it to. I feel myself forced hiding in very easy places, so that at least I don't run into trouble. As soon as I start roping or attempt anything more than a long distance zook shot I fail miserably. And apparently that's good enough to get into 2nd in the rankings. Meh.

The rope is different, but i found to enjoy revolution, you have to forget Armageddon and the rope game styles. It's not Armageddon's sequel; If you can imagine it as a Worms 1 sequel, Rev will begin to grow on you the more you play it.

There is a little skill in roping around the map, but on the other hand there's almost no skill in doing rope drops every turn... it's nice in a way that the game requires some aiming skill now.

Just add a "Race Rope", for the love of god!!

The collision masks or something are messed up so every time I try to fire a zook off the rope I hit myself. Another element of skill removed.

The rope in Worms: Revolution is just that... A rope! You can't bounce on walls at all and i can't even seem to go horisontal and extend the rope to get out of tricky situations.
There's NOTHING ninja about it.

Come on T17. It's a NINJA Rope. Let it be as solid and "easy" and arcade-like to use as in Worms: Armageddon. There's definitely nothing "overpowered" about it.
There's so many amazing game types in Worms: Armageddon that revolves around the rope working as it does.

As long as the rope quantity and how many times you can use it without touching the ground is limited in the normal playstyles i can't understand how people would say it's overpowered if it controlled like it did in Worms: Armageddon.

Also like people have already said, easy to learn but difficult to master - Just because someone is skilled doesn't make anything they use overpowered.
If so then why not nerf the person themselves? Ban them... They're too good. >.<

Some of my additional thoughts on W:Rev
Worms: Revolution is great fun but it's an entirely different game. I'd love to see T17 dare to go back to a true 2D Worms, just with more high-res textures, particle effects and re-invent it in some other way.

3D doesn't make a game better. Even if it still plays in 2D. There's so many great new 2D games out there like Braid, Super Meat Boy just to name a few. 2D isn't dead.

The 3D in W:Rev looks cool and all but too me it just feels a bit out of place, and sometimes it makes it hard to see how the landscape really looks because of weird camera angles.There's been times where i spent 30 seconds trying to jump up a ledge just because i could've swore that it was possible, only to move the camera a bit and notice that it's higher than i first thought.

It is useless a simple task is frustrating as hell why oh why do game devs mess so many things up, Let me give you a tip when you create something that is good maybe a good idea would be to not ruin it but actually improve it.

It is not asking for much just improve on something that is already a proven hit what people like, You are not alone though a lot of devs for games are doing it.

What worries me though is beth said that team17 devs have been working on this for 2 years SHOCKING, So team17 have no excuse no pressured deadline.

The rope is flaccid this time around. Poor rope, maybe one day those spam emails will come in handy.

Why does the rope "disconnect" at its own will? Is this intended? This never happend in previous games. I seems to happen when you try to pull up around an edge. The rope just disappears as if it ripped. If this is actually what's happening, there has to be an indicator. Color the rope red depending on how close it is to being destroyed (like in Bridge Builder).

I like the new Ninja Rope. It`s less arcade than the old one :) .

Why does the rope "disconnect" at its own will? Is this intended? This never happend in previous games. I seems to happen when you try to pull up around an edge. The rope just disappears as if it ripped. If this is actually what's happening, there has to be an indicator. Color the rope red depending on how close it is to being destroyed (like in Bridge Builder).

There's now an auto-hop function on the rope, when you reach the very, very top and press UP, your worm will jump off. This jump can be controlled/guided, it is to help players get up and over the edges of landscape.

This new function is explained during the tutorials, try Tutorial Mission 3: Utilities.

I like the new Ninja Rope. It`s less arcade than the old one :) .

Yeah, "arcade" makes sense.

Who cares if the old ninja rope was easy, at least it was fun to use.

Yeah, "arcade" makes sense.

Who cares if the old ninja rope was easy, at least it was fun to use.

I think this one is more fun to use just because it's more challenging. I bet shopper would be really great with it.

There's now an auto-hop function on the rope, when you reach the very, very top and press UP, your worm will jump off. This jump can be controlled/guided, it is to help players get up and over the edges of landscape.

This new function is explained during the tutorials, try Tutorial Mission 3: Utilities.

It's a neat function, but it shouldn't be automatic. I keep getting shot in the opposite direction because the game decides that I want to jump over an edge when I'm not really trying to do that and the autojump happens when I've already started pressing towards the opposite direction...

There are plenty of buttons you aren't using on the controller, why not just map this function to one of those?

It's a neat function, but it shouldn't be automatic. I keep getting shot in the opposite direction because the game decides that I want to jump over an edge when I'm not really trying to do that and the autojump happens when I've already started pressing towards the opposite direction...

There are plenty of buttons you aren't using on the controller, why not just map this function to one of those?

With the rope as it is now the only reason to be reeling the rope in at the top of a ledge is to jump over it. It sounds to me like you are trying to do something that is no longer possible, i.e. bouncing the worm off the wall with the rope reeled in hoping to be able to extend it when the worm is above the point of attachment. In revolution it is no longer possible to get your worm above the point of attachment so you should stop trying to do that.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of the automatical jump up. It does need tweaking though. It seems like it sometimes detachs when the worm is right up against the wall meaning that if you are pressing towards the wall at that moment, you bounce off it and can then not move the worm towards the wall and over the ledge. The devs needs to either ensure the release happens when the worm is pushed away from the wall a bit so that the worm doesn't bounce off it, or they need to tweak the jump so that jumping against the wall doesnt stop you from being able to then move towards it at the top of the jump.

I bet shopper would be really great with it.

It really.. wouldn't.

It's a neat function, but it shouldn't be automatic. I keep getting shot in the opposite direction because the game decides that I want to jump over an edge when I'm not really trying to do that and the autojump happens when I've already started pressing towards the opposite direction...

There are plenty of buttons you aren't using on the controller, why not just map this function to one of those?

Why not just let us jump with the jump button on our own will instead of making it automatic?

Where is the tutorial on xbox I cannot seem to find it I want to do the ninja rope training.

With the rope as it is now the only reason to be reeling the rope in at the top of a ledge is to jump over it. It sounds to me like you are trying to do something that is no longer possible, i.e. bouncing the worm off the wall with the rope reeled in hoping to be able to extend it when the worm is above the point of attachment. In revolution it is no longer possible to get your worm above the point of attachment so you should stop trying to do that.


Wasn't trying to do that, was just trying to reattach the rope somewhere higher.

With the rope as it is now the only reason to be reeling the rope in at the top of a ledge is to jump over it. It sounds to me like you are trying to do something that is no longer possible, i.e. bouncing the worm off the wall with the rope reeled in hoping to be able to extend it when the worm is above the point of attachment. In revolution it is no longer possible to get your worm above the point of attachment so you should stop trying to do that.

Actually, that's not true. It's still possible depending on the terrain, it is just harder to do so now because of the way this new rope works. I've only pulled it off once so far though. :-/

http://i.imgur.com/b1o9a.png

This happened to me a few times. I get that you might come around the edge by swinging to the right. But it's still annoying for such a deadly jump to happen automatically. Please let us trigger that jump.

http://i.imgur.com/b1o9a.png

This happened to me a few times. I get that you might come around the edge by swinging to the right. But it's still annoying for such a deadly jump to happen automatically. Please let us trigger that jump.

That, is a big problem with me too.

http://i.imgur.com/b1o9a.png

This happened to me a few times. I get that you might come around the edge by swinging to the right. But it's still annoying for such a deadly jump to happen automatically. Please let us trigger that jump.

I agree with changing the little hop from automatic to say, activating on the jump button (which by default is Shift).

I love how people say that the older style of rope (W:A) is "easy" compared to the new. In a few subtle ways, I will concede that. However, I think that the older rope is much more challenging to use overall. The rope as it is used in Revolution is basically just to get across gaps, or, at best, used to go from a lower to a higher bit of landscape. Connect, swing, disconnect. The older rope required a lot more skill and dexterity. The feeling that I get when using the rope in Reloaded is akin to the old Atari game "pitfall," or seeing Indiana Jones use a whip to swing across a hole in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" -- only not as epic.

After getting through all of campaign, I can officially say the rope is horrid. Even if just using it as meant to be now, to help a worm get up or down, it is completly unusable as per that graphic above.

I don't mind if for some reason they decided to nerf the rope in that it's hard to get a lot of momentum up.. seems kind of like how Valve removed Team Fortress Classic's concussion-jump grenade in TF2, destroying one of the unique elements of the game. But whatever.

My real problem is the auto release. That just gets in the way and causes accidents. It's obviously there as an " accessibility feature, so any noob can get up a ledge first time. It's actually ironic: Both my girlfriend and I are seasoned life-time Worms players and yet we struggled for a long time on the tutorial in trying to rope up that first hill, even though it had a massive sign saying FIRE ROPE HERE. We both kept trying to do it the WORMS way, ya know and that was flipping us off somewhere behind. It was only by accident that I managed to get up there the way this engine intends (easily and automatically) and only later in a coop game i realised we have to deal with this all the time. wow

http://i.imgur.com/b1o9a.png

This happened to me a few times. I get that you might come around the edge by swinging to the right. But it's still annoying for such a deadly jump to happen automatically. Please let us trigger that jump.

I must agree with you that the auto-jump off the rope is annoying as hell, and has also caused my worm to die twice already (in two consecutive games).
Also, it's also rather off-putting to have such a nerfed rope when I'm used to W:A's rope physics. Now you can do hardly anything with the rope compared to what you could do with the rope in W:A.

you only jump off if you pull against the wall when you get stuck. rather than holding the up key in panic, you need to understand that now you have to go down to go up.

and you still go very fast with this rope, and in shopper it works just as well as the previous ropes, just it's more of a challenge and it's more satisfying when you succeed than ever before.

some rope races would be interesting

I personally love the new auto-jump feature, it has saved my life countless times... simply because my opponent didn't know about it and lost their turn due to fall damage. :p

There's a detail that really bothers me about this rope though. At first, it feels quite similar to WA, but every time I attempt to get into a stronger swing by shortening the rope and then lengthening it again, some kind of unknown force pushes me back and just cuts my swing short. It feels like it was done on purpose to prevent the rope from being overpowered, and it's really not subtle at all.

That and the auto-jump is quite situational, it only works on nice rounded ledges. As soon as you're confronted to a slightly sharper edge, you're usually screwed. That's not so cool. I think the auto jump should only trigger when the game is sure you're not going to hit your head as soon as you detach. That would be reasonably easy to do and it would prevent a lot of silly accidents.

I agree with Kilburn, I noticed the same... that would be useful to disable the auto-jump in such situations.

I agree with Kilburn, I noticed the same... that would be useful to disable the auto-jump in such situations.

The rope is horrible. Forget for the moment any notion of playing Rope only games (though i would love for that). This rope is barely fit for perpose in default scemes.

What seems to be the issue for me is that the worm no longer hops/pushes against walls unless they are vertical. This means that if you land on the floor you cannot bounce along the ground either inwards or outwards. This in combinaion with the above mentioned difficulty gaining momentum and dodgey/unforgiving collision makes it infurating. I constantly have to replay the single player missions because of a "badly" placed rope that should have been fine.

Any news if there is anything going to be done to the rope or any fixes to the problems people have said about. I am waiting before I go online with this game and I have done everything in single player, Which was good but frustrating with the rope the way it is plus getting around the terrain is awkward at best I think I would pop a blood vessel if I went online the way the game plays at the moment. :(

I know it's probably been mentioned here, but I don't have the time to browse - but why not rename the current rope to grappling hook (or similar) and create something more stable and responsive called the ninja rope - even if only available in shopper and/or rope race schemes.

I'll admit I'm getting used used to the new rope. I've learned no second chances - make your repeat swing immediately or you're screwed. There's a certain element of awesomeness to that - but no reason we can't have both worlds of ropes to please everyone. As a former roper, I don't want to have to load up WA whenever I need my fix.

Team 17, are you hearing this?
Your new "ninja rope" is confusing everyone who tries to make sense of it, and is displeasing your fans greatly -with its awful physics and general uselessness.

What say you?!

just get used to it and stop moaning

just get used to it and stop moaning

new king of the thread

that's imho a great exemple of Roping...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsnLBz7I3jU
(the A/V quality is opposite proportionnal than the skills displayed)

that's imho a great exemple of Roping...

two swings on two small circles don't make it a Roping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3JItjyKVPI

;)

just get used to it and stop moaning

I quite agree.

just get used to it and stop moaning I quite agree.

as already said many times, "getting used to it" will not make you a great roper. ever. because it's how the rope is made ;) awfully

Although I found the armageddon-style ninjarope fun to use after mastering it, I think I'll manage with the new "nerfed" one.

Randomly getting thrown off while using the rope however is getting tiresome indeed...

"More options isn't always better! Many good sequels of various games have removed features and been better games as a result!"
I agree. I disliked Worms 2's level of weapon customisation and am glad it hasn't returned. It allowed too much customisation to the point that often you'd play a game online and had absolutely no idea how most weapons were going to act. I think WA's decision of letting you tweak the overall power by up to 20% either way works really well in letting you tone down some stuff that would otherwise be slightly under or overpowered when necessary while still keeping your expectation of how things will work intact. I also do not mourn the removal of a number of weapons in the more modern games.

Has all the mods and scheme editors that let you edit schemes beyond the values possible within the games own scheme editor, harmed W:A or your ability to enjoy W:A in any way?

I much prefer Worms 2 customization over W:A's add-on hacked to death system as it doesn't need 3rd party software while allowing for much more control over how things work so you can create some truly unique schemes and game types which just aren't possible in any other Worms game.

The only thing W:A does better then Worms 2 in my opinion is the game lobby and #Anything_Goes, it is incredibly easy to organize a game with people and if something is good enough it can become a standard, like Shopper, WxW, BnG etc.. Everything else is vastly superior in every way in Worms 2.

You advocate more options, but then want an arbitrary limitation and so far the only reason for it is it's hard to convey what the scheme will contain... that is what naming your game is meant to do and that is what the name of a game is used for in W:A and every other Worms game including Worms 2.

I argue that if Worms 2 had a better game lobby/interface, didn't depend on port forwarding if you had a router, 3rd party software to manipulate the external IP address if you have a router, and didn't lag the online game for all players if anyone should minimize, it would be vastly more popular then it is today.

For weapons Worms 2 lets you adjust:

Ammo in crates
Percent chance to appear in crates
Initial blast radius
Damage caused by the initial blast
Blast radius of any clusters that may have spawned, independent of the weapons initial blast radius
Damage generated by clusters that may have spawned, independent of the weapons initial damage
The amount of clusters that spawn
How much the weapon and its clusters are affected by Wind
The spread of the weapons attack if the weapon fires multiple shots like a Uzi and Minigun etc.
The amount of bullets that guns can fire per use
Height and distance of various weapons like Dragon ball, Kamikaze, Dragon Punch, Blow Torch etc.
Numerous other settings for weapons/gear


For options:

Limit maximum wind intensity
Delay before Tab/Select Worm became available
Whether or not Sudden Death enables Artillery Mode
Borders around a level
Amount of health from health packs adjusted in increments of 1
Booby trapped crates
various other stuff, my minds pretty rusty.

Also Worms 2 lets you blow up your opponents graves, with the graves death dealing a very small blast/additional damage.

as already said many times, "getting used to it" will not make you a great roper. ever. because it's how the rope is made ;) awfully

Not true, I'm a great roper now after 2 months of practice. Play me in a game of shopper and I will show you how it's done :)

Not true, I'm a great roper now after 2 months of practice. Play me in a game of shopper and I will show you how it's done :)

That's like becoming really good at a sport you created called "kneeball" which is like football except you can only use your knees for anything. Sure, you've become good at it, and if you challenge professional football players to a game of kneeball you'll most likely beat them.


But it's effing stupid.

Kneeball is both a proud and skillful sport, second only to crotchball.

That's like becoming really good at a sport you created called "kneeball" which is like football except you can only use your knees for anything. Sure, you've become good at it, and if you challenge professional football players to a game of kneeball you'll most likely beat them.


But it's effing stupid.

I love this analogy, even though I don't entirely agree

I continue to be surprised how few people know you can change this rope's direction in midair.

I also am surprised still that people think this rope is the worst yet. Do people really not remember how bad the rope was in Reloaded? The rope physics in that game are pure crap, and just reek of something heavily nerfed.

"But Reloaded had rope races!"

So the **** what? With a rope that bad, you might as well be having a car race where both people are driving a 72 Flat Wagon. Sure, it's still a race, but it's one of the slowest and most boring races you're ever going to see.

Does the rope in Revolution need to be tweaked? Yes it does. But the physics are largely fine, it's that damn autohop that needs to go, it makes using the rope harder than it should.

big post
The big problem with W2's level of customisation is that it went down to the level where you could get a weapon to fundamentally feel different in how it's fired, which is awful in a game so heavily centred around getting used to the physics engine. Why do users need to fiddle with how much the bazooka is carried by the wind to 100 levels of accuracy? This doesn't help create new schemes, it just means I have to meticulously check 10 different options for 50 different weapons before every game or else I mess up my shots because someone changed the bazooka's wind setting from 100 to 95. If your scheme has a weapon in it, I expect it to work consistently with every other time I've fired it before. When I fire an uzi, it should work like the uzi, not the minigun. When I throw a banana bomb, I expect the cluster's to spread out within a certain range. Consistency is really important.

W2's weapon customisation options were a big complicated mess and left me always with the doubt that when I went to play a game online, the weapons might not work the same way between games. It sucked.

I think W2's customization was better for organized games, whereas W:A's works better for playing against online strangers. This problem could be alleviated by having a separate online lobby for fully customized games.

Yeah...it isn't feeling too good from the few times i've used it. I think the huge issue is all the slack it's given, so it's constantly bending. Which makes no sense, phsics wise. Obviously the old one didn't make complete sense either. However, it seems like they went from 1 extreme to another, except now it's just not fun, and lacks versatility in it's use. Now it's literally just to get across a gap, which is harder to do than before.

Why? Because the rope loses any sort of momentum. It's not realistic. If you have a heavy object on the end of a rope, the rope should remain tight, but in this game the rope remains taut most of the time. The only time the rope should be taut is when you are coming back from the peak of your swing, much like it does when you swing on a swingset.

That's the problem. Swinging back and forth should gain momentum. Letting you swing further and further, and with enough momentum and force, to swing in a full loop. It doesn't work like that here. That seems impossible. Just swinging back and forth seems to do close to nothing.

Making the rope now effectively near useless for any sort of maneuvering other than barely making it across a gap.

If they wanted to make the W2:A rope more realistic, good for them. But this isn't realistic either. Now it just has physics to it, physics which aren't realistic. The rope should remain tight until the peak of your swing, when your weight begins to shift in the other direction. Then and only then should it bend at all. All other time is should be straight like the W2:A rope.

This is so true. :D

There's now an auto-hop function on the rope, when you reach the very, very top and press UP, your worm will jump off. This jump can be controlled/guided, it is to help players get up and over the edges of landscape.

This new function is explained during the tutorials, try Tutorial Mission 3: Utilities.

With this reply in conclusion:

http://i.imgur.com/b1o9a.png

This happened to me a few times. I get that you might come around the edge by swinging to the right. But it's still annoying for such a deadly jump to happen automatically. Please let us trigger that jump.

I agree, this is annoying LOL! :D

The rope in Worms: Revolution is just that... A rope! You can't bounce on walls at all and i can't even seem to go horisontal and extend the rope to get out of tricky situations.
There's NOTHING ninja about it.

Come on T17. It's a NINJA Rope. Let it be as solid and "easy" and arcade-like to use as in Worms: Armageddon. There's definitely nothing "overpowered" about it.
There's so many amazing game types in Worms: Armageddon that revolves around the rope working as it does.

As long as the rope quantity and how many times you can use it without touching the ground is limited in the normal playstyles i can't understand how people would say it's overpowered if it controlled like it did in Worms: Armageddon.

Also like people have already said, easy to learn but difficult to master - Just because someone is skilled doesn't make anything they use overpowered.
If so then why not nerf the person themselves? Ban them... They're too good. >.<

Some of my additional thoughts on W:Rev
Worms: Revolution is great fun but it's an entirely different game. I'd love to see T17 dare to go back to a true 2D Worms, just with more high-res textures, particle effects and re-invent it in some other way.

3D doesn't make a game better. Even if it still plays in 2D. There's so many great new 2D games out there like Braid, Super Meat Boy just to name a few. 2D isn't dead.

The 3D in W:Rev looks cool and all but too me it just feels a bit out of place, and sometimes it makes it hard to see how the landscape really looks because of weird camera angles.There's been times where i spent 30 seconds trying to jump up a ledge just because i could've swore that it was possible, only to move the camera a bit and notice that it's higher than i first thought.

Man, totally agree! :)

Some of you may think this post is useless, although to me this post is important - If not the most important imho. :D

Little Bonus Edit:
Ninja Rope Fail? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IOGW2gHhEgE#!)
00:48
->
02:15

I think W2's customization was better for organized games, whereas W:A's works better for playing against online strangers. This problem could be alleviated by having a separate online lobby for fully customized games.

Yeah that sounds about right.

I do like the extra customization options in W2, but overall I simply enjoy the feel of W:A more. I think that it has the best all-around quality of gameplay, and yes, users have to use third-party scheme designers, but there is still a LOT of customization possible. I do miss some of the W2 features though. I'm one of those people who thinks that more customization is always better because it amounts to more replay value. Yeah, some people don't want banana bombs affected by wind or dragon balls traversing half of a map, but I think that learning new schemes is fun, and if the host/creator isn't a dick, they will fill you in on the details. ;)

I haven't even played Worms since Halo 4 came out but I thought I'd stop by this morning.

Gotta give credit where credit is due here so...

Shman Dee on XBL unlocked the rope A WHILE back. It's one of the sickest ropes ever if you just know how to use it!

People will kill me for this but here goes anyway, just so everyone will quit whining about the rope.

Instructions for swinging up AND OVER any terrain:

(On Xbox) Attach the rope to the edge of the terrain that you would like to swing up an over...as close to the edge as possible but it doesn't have to be perfect. As you swing toward the edge, hold in that direction. When the rope is perpendicular to the edge, (straight,) begin holding up as well as the direction you are facing.

HERE'S THE KEY: Continue holding up and your forward facing direction and press A at the appropriate time to launch up and over!

It's totally counter intuitive! Well hidden trick Team 17! It's so simple there's no way it can work right? It does.

In all previous Worms games, you had to switch directions back and forth for momentum. With this one, even after your worm has crossed the plane where you would have previously switched directions on your pad to continue swinging up and over, just CONTINUE TO HOLD THE ORIGINAL FORWARD FACING DIRECTION AND UP, and as long as you have enough rope out, you will LAUNCH up and over the ledge.

I actually chose a cavern style map with a huge center piece and started up a local game of Shopper. I used some super sheep to detach it from the ceiling and began swinging all the way around it in a circle just for practice. It's awesome.

is that the same guy who started the 'shmole'? kind of a cheap move if you ask me. :cool:

Y'all are killin me. There's no such thing as a 'shmole.' I've been doing that since week one. Ask Red Team Gone where he saw it first. Everyone learned it from yours truly.

btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vlq1hc64s4A#t=1252s
:cool:

btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vlq1hc64s4A#t=1252s
:cool:

Oh hey, it's one of those "let's act like the rope in Worms Reloaded is working the same way as in Worms Armageddon, then complain it doesn't work the same way" videos.

In Worms Reloaded, you need to tap the arrow down key shortly before releasing the rope to gradually increase your speed. He isn't doing that once a single time in the video.

Mind you, doing that in Worms Armageddon would cause you to lose all your speed, too. It's not working in the same way. I don't understand what he says but obviously the uploader had the W:A rope in mind and decided his skills have to be transferable to W:R.

Nope, wrong. Also, videos by shallow-minded people are fun to whatch, did I mention that? "oh no the devs are trying to make money with the products they spend time and resources on to develop how dare they".

Oh hey, it's one of those "let's act like the rope in Worms Reloaded is working the same way as in Worms Armageddon, then complain it doesn't work the same way" videos.

not. he is comparing the overall versatility of both ropes, and that video also has fragments where he does rope good in Reloaded. if that video was in english, you'd see by yourself...
having much played Worms Open Warfare 2 and Battle Islands I know about the "Down" button thing, I got all golds from almost first attempts without any minute of pre-training. But it's no more than increasing speed, you can't perform any worthy or useful tricks and the rope restricts you to a few possible swings no matter how pro you are. can't you understand it still, after ages of disputes? :confused: the only good side of this rope is the gaming consoles, where it pretty much fits, however there's also an exception (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx6RZkVz3jU).

not. he is comparing the overall versatility of both ropes, and that video also has fragments where he does rope good in Reloaded. if that video was in english, you'd see by yourself...

No, he is controlling the rope as he would in W:A. There are tricks to be performed with it that he isn't considering at all, because he's taking it as the W:A rope. I whatched the entire video and he doesn't know how to use the rope at all - it's much of an abstruse argument to claim something inferior to something else when you take it the one thing has to be exactly the same as the other, really really dumb, that.

having much played Worms Open Warfare 2 and Battle Islands I know about the "Down" button thing, I got all golds from almost first attempts without any minute of pre-training. But it's no more than increasing speed, you can't perform any worthy or useful tricks and the rope restricts you to a few possible swings no matter how pro you are. can't you understand it still, after ages of disputes? :confused: the only good side of this rope is the gaming consoles, where it pretty much fits, however there's also an exception (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx6RZkVz3jU).

The rope is completely different from Open Warfare 2 and Battle Islands. You don't know the rope from Reloaded at all.

I also tried the free weekend version and the rope certainly is ****. It has to be like in Armageddon cause it's "PERFECT" there!

But they keep making it worse and worse :(

I tried the Steam version this past weekend. I can't believe how glitchy it was. Nothing like playing on a console. I turned everything off and it didn't help at all. Good rope skills are completely non-existent. I went, like, 25-2 for the weekend and I didn't see anyone come off the rope. The two games I lost...I was foolish enough to attempt skilled rope maneuvers.

I tried the Steam version this past weekend. I can't believe how glitchy it was. Nothing like playing on a console. I turned everything off and it didn't help at all. Good rope skills are completely non-existent. I went, like, 25-2 for the weekend and I didn't see anyone come off the rope. The two games I lost...I was foolish enough to attempt skilled rope maneuvers.

You can barely swing. It's just like the grappling hook in LoZ. They should just add in a grappling hook and give use the old rope back. Glad there was a free weekend so I can see this crap for myself instead of wasting money on it. Even on the free weekend you could barely get a game. You can't even scroll down the lobby list!

i find it silly that i am the only person in the entire game who takes pride in his/her ninja rope skills. i am a pathetic loser :)

The only thing you can quite normally do is swing around by pressing space space space. But getting around corners vertically is impossible. It's bull**** high ten!

The only thing you can quite normally do is swing around by pressing space space space. But getting around corners vertically is impossible. It's bull**** high ten!


i don't fully understand what you mean, but you played on xbox i could show you a couple tricks.

Has anyone perfected the ninja rope on Forts mode? :cool:

Can anyone swing infinitely? :cool:

I certainly wasn't playing on Xbox. The Xbox **** would also explain why the rope is that bad. What I meant was....wait! You like farts?

What aspect of the rope don't you understand? Can you be more specific? I would be happy to explain in detail many of my tricks.

Why don't you post a video so we can judge if you're worth listening to? :D

I don't have posting abilities. If I did it would be a video from a Flip or my iphone so the quality would be crap. If that's what you want we could work that out I guess, otherwise.. THE ONLY REASON I am ranked number 1 on xbox is because my rope skills are far superior than any of the competition. It's not because I'm a better wormer. I do have solid skills and solid strategy, but I am capable of being out wormed. It's my sneak attack skills on the rope that catches people off guard. Please believe when I say, I am the best active roper on xbox and am full of myself because of it :cool:

After playing over a half year I have to say it´s my favorite rope in the worms games!!!

I couldn't agree with you more Knarls.

Farts, I tried the pc version. They have no rope at all lol. It's like, the game runs smoothly enough until things start to move fast, then it gets kind of glitchy. When you swing the rope slowly, you can predict what it's going to do, but if you get any speed, your worm and the rope disappear for a split second and by the time you can see them again, it's too late. You can't even judge when to let go to get another swing unless the ceiling is wide open...you'll bump a wall or something while your worm is glitched out and by the time you can see him again, he's falling. It's nothing like Xbox.

To whoever said you couldn't get a game during the free weekend: that's weird. I, literally didn't have to wait more than 2 or 3 seconds after hosting a ranked match before someone joined in. It was like that for every single game I played.

Oh yeah! I almost forgot...No one I played on pc used a controller! I know this because there's no way to access the weapons panel with the mouse if you have a controller plugged in. Plug in a damn controller guys. How could anyone expect to use the rope with a keyboard?!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YyXORjUgzQ0/UJFE7rgfk2I/AAAAAAAAASU/TpkQ4F-M4L0/s1600/lol.gif

Couldn't agree with you more Godz on the suggestion to use a controller. I wouldn't play it otherwise.

Farts, I tried the pc version. They have no rope at all lol. It's like, the game runs smoothly enough until things start to move fast, then it gets kind of glitchy. When you swing the rope slowly, you can predict what it's going to do, but if you get any speed, your worm and the rope disappear for a split second and by the time you can see them again, it's too late. You can't even judge when to let go to get another swing unless the ceiling is wide open...you'll bump a wall or something while your worm is glitched out and by the time you can see him again, he's falling. It's nothing like Xbox.


Sounds like your PC can't run the game properly, I used to rope all the time for a while after release, never had that issue pop up.

Also, if we "have no rope", it's because pretty much anyone who can rope worth a damn either moved on or went back to Armageddon. I myself haven't played the game in months and even got banned on the Steam forum for answering questions about getting refunds when people were complaining that the game doesn't even work for them (and supposedly I was banned for arguing with Bethany...I would actually have appealed to Valve about unfair banning if I gave a damn about this game anymore).

It would be better if they welcomed criticism as a way to improve. :-/

Banned for arguing with Team 17 steaff? Assuming you didn't lose your cool or use bad language that's pretty low...

It's possible that my system won't run it properly. The no rope comment wasn't directed at skills, just the glitchyness. May have been my system.

It's possible that my system won't run it properly. The no rope comment wasn't directed at skills, just the glitchyness. May have been my system.

My apologies then.

Banned for arguing with Team 17 steaff? Assuming you didn't lose your cool or use bad language that's pretty low...

I may have said something a tad snarky regarding the lack of content between updates and the DLCs...but that was at least a week before I had gotten banned, making me think that was an excuse.

But considering all of these forums mysteriously disappeared... (the forums these link to are the new ones, the old ones were actually on the steam forums themselves)

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1213

...around the time people from the beta for Rev started coming and posting that they didn't listen to any of their feedback, I think they are just trying to censor criticism. Also, I got banned right before the free weekend on Steam, making me think all the more they just didn't like me telling them that Steam often gives a refund if a game you bought doesn't work (although usually only one time).