A great man on the Internet once (quite recently) said:

I know [something in Reloaded] is more the point, but it's always nice to have the option rather than being forced into one or the other.

And while it may not have been in regard to Reloaded, it very much applies to it. Ignoring the horrendously buggy engine and the awful user interface, we're getting to the point of the game. While I did not expect any different from a console port, it is something I'd expect from a future Worms instalment on PC.

There have been several threads shortly before the game was released regarding the Worm limit and the map size limit. And while they may have been limited by the engine itself (as no Worms game after 2001 has allowed for more than 8 worms per team), it is something that is still not hard to implement.

In the whole year the game was in development, it is still incomplete. Great games are made in this timespan, so why can't Team17 properly port a game like they should? Not to mention the 3 month beta that lasted until Worms Reloaded was released, there were still some bugs that weren't fixed.

In other words, instead of giving the option to people to play the game how they want to play it, why do Team17 choose to restrict the user experience? That is why Armageddon will last (which is also supported to this day) and Reloaded is already rotting.

I could have just listed most of Reloaded's faults like every other thread does, but in this case, I wanted to make Team17 think, instead of saying that it sucks and them not caring the slightest.

I had that nostalgic feeling for W:A, but the more I play reloaded, the more I prefer the style of play, the graphics, the artwork, and the gameplay (even if it isn't perfect yet)

It really is a good game when taken on it's own merits. It really has led to me preferring non-rope games. Whereas with W:A I couldn't stand them.

One thing I can't forgive is the buginess of the online game. It seems ridiculous (and I keep mentioning it) that in a game, when a player leaves, the whole game hangs. And that was introduced with the latest patch!

Another small thing that annoys me is that the computer controller worms walk with a disability. They seem to "tap walk". If you keep tapping left or right with your worm in control you'll see what I mean. Why can't they just walk properly? As if they had their finger down on the left or right keys?

Hopefully once the bugs in AI and multiplayer are fixed, we can start the user improvements. After a BIG patch to address gameplay, customisation and content issues, there should be something like a Steam sale or free multiplayer weekend (I prefer the weekend option) to increase the size of the community, and thus userbase for future DLC.

I asked myself the same question... I asked the question on the steam forums... Bill saw it and ignored it.

I think we just have to accept that this game isn't going to be what we thought it was going to be... the best worms... D: While they might fix bugs and issues now, big stuff like how the menu/interface works is not going to change and extra options... well forget about it.

It really is a good game when taken on it's own merits. It really has led to me preferring non-rope games. Whereas with W:A I couldn't stand them.

Why? If you ask me, they were better in W2/WA/WWP, graphics aside. I like roping as much as I do regular worming, and as I mentioned in the opening post, you're being forced into doing things instead of being given the option to play the way you like it. It's called customisation, something WR promotes but barely utilizes.

Another small thing that annoys me is that the computer controller worms walk with a disability. They seem to "tap walk". If you keep tapping left or right with your worm in control you'll see what I mean. Why can't they just walk properly? As if they had their finger down on the left or right keys?

THIS.

I thought it was just me, but now I know it isn't. Seriously, this is SO annoying!

Why? If you ask me, they were better in W2/WA/WWP, graphics aside. I like roping as much as I do regular worming, and as I mentioned in the opening post, you're being forced into doing things instead of being given the option to play the way you like it. It's called customisation, something WR promotes but barely utilizes.



THIS.

I thought it was just me, but now I know it isn't. Seriously, this is SO annoying!

Sometimes getting the game "as we want it" doesn't really improve the user experience that much.

For instance MW2 has no dedicated servers. Some believe this is awful, I believe that it really reduces the amount of searching, crap servers and idiots in the game. We might not appreciate it now, but I'm liking the variety of games that don't rely on the rope. I think now that less emphasis is placed on the rope, worms has become a more casual game. A month ago I would be shouting for the old rope back, but it seems all the "Worms Pros" that are in the game now are unbearable, they would be much more annoying given a rope. If they want the old rope, W:A exists for a reason.

Some idiot beat me in a game and wrote PRO. I really don't understand "Pro" gamers. It seems they don't get any fun or enjoyment out of games. They simply want to humiliate people...

Another small thing that annoys me is that the computer controller worms walk with a disability. They seem to "tap walk". If you keep tapping left or right with your worm in control you'll see what I mean. Why can't they just walk properly? As if they had their finger down on the left or right keys?

You'll get used to it in a few years :p They already do this since Worms 4: Mayhem...

Why? If you ask me, they were better in W2/WA/WWP, graphics aside. I like roping as much as I do regular worming, and as I mentioned in the opening post, you're being forced into doing things instead of being given the option to play the way you like it. It's called customisation, something WR promotes but barely utilizes.

Maybe it was better (To be honest, I think it wouldn't be that worse in W:R if they'd just fix those huge disadvantaging issues), but I assume he means the on-line community, that would die instantly if the rope was taken out of W:A :p I barely find any deathmatches anymore. Nobody cares for the strategic gameplay W:A offers, all they want to play is either rope based schemes or BnG stuff (I also count hysteria to BnG, btw).

We might not appreciate it now, but I'm liking the variety of games that don't rely on the rope. I think now that less emphasis is placed on the rope, worms has become a more casual game. A month ago I would be shouting for the old rope back, but it seems all the "Worms Pros" that are in the game now are unbearable, they would be much more annoying given a rope. If they want the old rope, W:A exists for a reason.

Some idiot beat me in a game and wrote PRO. I really don't understand "Pro" gamers. It seems they don't get any fun or enjoyment out of games. They simply want to humiliate people...

You think WR offers more variety than WA when it comes to ground schemes? Really? Which ones are there? WA has BnG [and variations of it], Fort, Holy War, Hysteria, Elite, Intermediate, Pro, Team17, Mole Shopper... and that's just the historically popular ones. On top of that, it has this sort of variety and depth in roping schemes as well. And again in the various racing schemes that rely on either walking/jumping or using a limited set of utilities or weapons to move from start to finish.

I mean, sure, I can accept that someone might like WR better because it's limited. But why would such a player try and make it look like the game is more versatile for it? If you put too much emphasis on roping in WA, that was your own fault, not everyone else's, surely? Same goes for your apparent disability to find opponents you're comfortable with playing against.

You think WR offers more variety than WA when it comes to ground schemes? Really? Which ones are there? WA has BnG [and variations of it], Fort, Holy War, Hysteria, Elite, Intermediate, Pro, Team17, Mole Shopper... and that's just the historically popular ones. On top of that, it has this sort of variety and depth in roping schemes as well. And again in the various racing schemes that rely on either walking/jumping or using a limited set of utilities or weapons to move from start to finish.

I mean, sure, I can accept that someone might like WR better because it's limited. But why would such a player try and make it look like the game is more versatile for it? If you put too much emphasis on roping in WA, that was your own fault, not everyone else's, surely? Same goes for your apparent disability to find opponents you're comfortable with playing against.

No I don't. But I have seen a huge variety of games played. Whereas so many games back in 2002-04 when I played W:A were shoppas. Even those that were not Shoppas had the "rope mentality" instilled into every player.

I'm not trying to make W:A look like it is more versatile or customisable than W:A. But the fact is, it will get future gameplay updates whereas W:A won't. So it's not a challenge to believe that Worms will be more customisable inthe future.

Regarding the ability to find opponents in W:R. Play Multiplayer and tell me how easy it is to find good opponents.

But the fact is, it will get future gameplay updates whereas W:A won't.

Haha, hahahahaha.

You haven't been playing WA much, have you? :p

Haha, hahahahaha.

You haven't been playing WA much, have you? :p

Not since 2004 :)

But the fact is, it will get future gameplay updates whereas W:A won't.

Trolololololololol

That is why Armageddon will last (which is also supported to this day) and Reloaded is already rotting.

This also means you haven't read the first post like you're supposed to which disappoints me a bit.

Go check out WA today, it's as active as it ever was and even though roping schemes are predominant I admit, you can still find a non rope-based scheme at any time.

Which is why I'm surprised when Thurbo says he can't find any. Seriously, I play at least three Intermediates every day.

Trolololololololol

That's not trolling, it just escaped his notice :p

Which is why I'm surprised when Thurbo says he can't find any. Seriously, I play at least three Intermediates every day.

Either I play W:A not at the best time of the day or I'm not staying on-line long enoough, but anyway I just went on-line: WxW, Shoppa, Shoppa, WxW, Hysteria, Rope vs Drill (<--- What's that one?! Never heard of it), Tower. Would have liked to show you a screenshot but I dunno how to take one :S

However, not a single deathmatch in the list and from my experience this would stay for at least 5 minutes. I hope you agree with me that this is not very much :p

In spite I'm a big fan of the rope as well, I like Worms for the strategic gameplay and see the rope as a tool instead of what the game is based on - not unimportant, but still not superior.

That's not trolling, it just escaped his notice :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32UGD0fV45g

I was thinking about stuff like DLC, new weapons, apperance changes. Are there any new campaigns, weapons, customisations that have been added to the game since Team17 stopped updating it themselves?
EDIT (Please don't mention the fact they removed many weapons from W:R. I KNOW. And its a BIG ISSUE I believe will be addressed in time.)

I may as well provide feedback to ensure W:R becomes a great game that provides me hours more of enjoyment. Or I could just shout about how great W:A is (is it pretty good) but that won't improve W:R.

Roping is awesome, that's why it is popular.

Roping is one of the most beautiful gaming concepts ever devised. That is why it has maintained such a fanbase and an ever-increasing one at that. It's so bloomin' fun. People play it once and are hooked.

It's easy to start, a sense of satisfaction when you perform your first basic moves. Then you try and speed up a little and soon realise that as you try and push for more speed it gets more difficult to keep composed. This fine balance in gameplay means that a player will improve gradually over time and there is a seemingly never-ending potential for improvement. Even the best ropers who play armageddon still practice and are still improving and learning new tricks after years of practice.

But people who have only played for a week can still own the pros in a game of shoppa and everyone can enjoy roping and blasting each other about. Awesome stuff.

Moving on...

Bng is not popular, in fact it's very rarely hosted even though it was one of the first schemes ever devised.

But look closely and what do you see....you see a sub-section of the worms community. BnG players exist in their dozens, holding tournaments and playing games all around. Look on the forums and you can meet them and get involved. The same can be said for normal / intermediate games. They might not be loads hosted in ag but there is certainly a thriving community out there for anyone to discover.

Alternatively if you just want to play, why not host an intermediate or other strategic game yourself. Use hosting buddy if you can't host normally. I absolutely guarantee that your game will fill in seconds and you'll be playing exactly how you like it.

The 'Anything Goes' lobby is only one small window into an amazing community. Whatever your interest and scheme preference you will always find many other people who share your interests.

I like sheep races. They are unpopular generally. So what I do is make maps and host sheep races and encourage people to put down their ropes for a few minutes. It does work and it's quite satisfying. I never get ****ed off when I see 10 rope games being hosted in ag.

You guys who like normals and deathmatches and only play worms reloaded seriously don't know what you're missing.

Cue :<

As a roper, i didn't played ANY normal game in YEARS before WR came :(

Honestly, I have no faith in this game getting any better. Judging from T17's recent games, it's probably gonna lose support within the next six months and they'll just completely avoid answering any feedback about it. They'll probably get around to making it more playable before then, but I wouldn't expect any significant additional content or changes made to the game.

In other words, instead of giving the option to people to play the game how they want to play it, why do Team17 choose to restrict the user experience?
It falls under the "the customers don't know what they like most" situation. Which is to say, if you give casual players the option to play with 8 worms a team and on huge maps, then most of them will always play with 8 worms a team and on huge maps regardless of whether it would actually be more fun or not.
It's very much a design choice between having more options and appeasing the experienced players and having less options and making it more fun for casual players. It's far from a "this is always better" situation that you portray it to be.

Worms Armageddon doesn't have this problem because, by definition, all its players are experienced players.

Judging from T17's recent games
Recent? They've done that for every game since Worms3D. And probably earlier too, I don't know about the patch history for those older games.

It falls under the "the customers don't know what they like most" situation. Which is to say, if you give casual players the option to play with 8 worms a team and on huge maps, then most of them will always play with 8 worms a team and on huge maps regardless of whether it would actually be more fun or not.

It's very much a design choice between having more options and appeasing the experienced players and having less options and making it more fun for casual players. It's far from a "this is always better" situation that you portray it to be.

If it doesn't happen though, Worms Reloaded wouldn't have any experienced players now would it?

@Thurbo Even when I feel like playing a deathmatch and there aren't any hosted (which happens but not often), when I do host one three players come within ten seconds. http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa224/dash_082/moar%20emoticons/emot-downs.gif

Also:
Rope vs Drill(<--- What's that one?! Never heard of it)

You know, I don't know either. It's a good example, though, that the WA community is still very active and can still come up with new and interesting ways to play a game which is over ten years old.

I was thinking about stuff like DLC, new weapons, apperance changes. Are there any new campaigns, weapons, customisations that have been added to the game since Team17 stopped updating it themselves?

This obviously can't be done. The game isn't properly sold any more and CyberShadow and DeadCode can't be expected to come up with new campaigns and add new weapons. They may be working on a cool mission maker, though, which would officially rock Reloaded's ass off. (You can check out this (http://worms2d.info/4), though, to see what they're plotting.)

They can add cut weapons but that won't feel right and will make the game a tad unbalanced, not to mention needing an F13 key.

EDIT: You know what'd be great? Limiting a match to 16 Worms. That way, proper 1v1s can be played while retaining the four Worms per player maximum for 4 players, which is indeed the best way to play a 4 player game (which contradicts some of the points in my first post, but it's true.)

While reading this thread now, I took a passing glance at WebSnoop (http://snoop.worms2d.info/) and saw three Intermediate games hosted almost simultaneously. And it's 13:00 GMT, so far from the busiest hour [that's at roughly 19:00 GMT on WormNet1]. Just saying. And as others have pointed out, Intermediate games in particular tend to fill up very quickly if you host your own there; that's certainly true from my experience as well.

I don't really have much to add to the actual topic that I haven't already said elsewhere, but as always when WA needs to be defended, I find it hard to resist. Sorreh.

THE TIME HAS COME TEAM 17:

Just release one last version of Worms and call it:

Worms Ultimate Armageddon !!

Put ALL of the weapons every created in the game

ALL of the schemes - also let users create schemes

Map Editor etc

STOP RE-RELEASING THE GAME AND TAKING STUFF OUT

CASH IN NOW - I FOR ONE WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER VERSION AGAIN IN FUTURE AS YOU KEEP DROPPING FEATURES AND WEAPOPNS ETC

Here is a list of the versions I have purchased in my gaming years: Please forgive me if the correct name versions are wrong:


Worms PS1
Worms 2
WA PS1
WA PC
WA N64
WWP PS1
WWP Dreamcast
Worms GBC
Worms GBA (Crashed all the time)
Worms on DS
Worms 2 DS
Worms 3D Xbox
Worms Forts (Crap)
W:A2 Xbox360
W:A2 PS3


So as you can see, I have clearly supported you over the years :)

Stop Milking it now............ and release the ULTIMATE VERSION or ADD SOME DL CONTENT FOR THE Console versions.

You are saving money by not releasing "BOXED RETAIL" versions of your games..... so make more of an effort with your digital distributed versions of Worms.

These forums are plagued with issues relating to the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of your recent releases of W:A2 and I don't see you responding or releasing any patches?

I feel a little let down to be honest.

Sort it out

WORMS ULTIMATE ARMAGGEDON

@Thurbo Even when I feel like playing a deathmatch and there aren't any hosted (which happens but not often), when I do host one three players come within ten seconds. http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa224/dash_082/moar%20emoticons/emot-downs.gif

I can't host normally and using hosting buddy, it takes that long to make up a match that every player leaves my lobby after a short amount of time :p

You know, I don't know either. It's a good example, though, that the WA community is still very active and can still come up with new and interesting ways to play a game which is over ten years old.

Yes. I remember there once appeared a new "normal" scheme called "Armageddon". The idea was simple but this game was awesome! Mainly you build bases with girder kits and stuff while every player has an Armageddon (delayed, IIRC). I loved it. But the next day nobody hosted it anymore. It died way too soon, probably because the rope didn't play a role }:-(

They may be working on a cool mission maker, though, which would officially rock Reloaded's ass off. (You can check out this (http://worms2d.info/4), though, to see what they're plotting.)

Because this thing is so darn cool, every idiot tries to create a cool mission and fails dreadfully and still those missions can be downloaded from anywhere in the Internet. That's what happened to WWP, at least :p

EDIT: You know what'd be great? Limiting a match to 16 Worms. That way, proper 1v1s can be played while retaining the four Worms per player maximum for 4 players, which is indeed the best way to play a 4 player game (which contradicts some of the points in my first post, but it's true.)

Just like Worms 4 Mayhem. For 2 player matches, if you want more worms per team so bad, I think 6 are enough.

I can't host normally and using hosting buddy, it takes that long to make up a match that every player leaves my lobby after a short amount of time :p

With HB it's basically this:

!host Intermediate
!yes
!host Intermediate
!map (until you generate a good map you like)
!start

If you want to host regularly, WormNAT2 works for me.

Is it possible to play on schemes with HB? Because I'm usually playing an own version of intermediate since I dislike the infinite amount of shotguns and uzis, as well as some other small tweaks :p

Is it possible to play on schemes with HB? Because I'm usually playing an own version of intermediate since I dislike the infinite amount of shotguns and uzis, as well as some other small tweaks :p

Yeah, you can upload your scheme to www.wsdb.org and then choose that scheme through host buddy in the same way as you can choose a specific map from wmdb.

Very awesome facility I have to say.

More info here - http://worms2d.info/Hosting_buddy#Schemes

I must say it would be more awesome just to allow everyone to host oneself. HB is just a nice but longwinded workaround.

I must say it would be more awesome just to allow everyone to host oneself. HB is just a nice but longwinded workaround.

: )

I don't have a clue about programming but I'm assuming it's not as simple as just "allowing" people to host. Maybe the way the game was coded all those years ago prevents an easy fix.

Hosting Buddy was literally a dream come true for so many frustrated wormers, it's extremely popular. I'm assuming it becomes quite quick to use over time.

I also don't get it why many of the WA (last worms game I actively played) are in Reloaded. I mean in 10+ years people would think certain technical parts of the game like multiplayer would have improved? Instead they are terrible.

But I won't go on about this, as Team17 must realise by now orthey just don't care.

I have 1 bug to report that I have no one else seen mentioning :

I CAN ONLY PLAY 1 ROUND ! When I put 3 or 5 in a new style and I use that, the game shows 2 screens with 'continue' and than goes the the main menu of the game. That really annoys me, I want to play more than 1 round with the same people ... I mean things like this are absurd anno 2010.

I also don't get why so many good things from a 10+ year old game aren't in Reloaded. WA was the last active worms game I played and besides more humor, better resolution and a few nice weapons time stood still or has even reversed, especiallay in the multplayer part. I mean it feels the same now like when i played WA online with my 56k modem back then, and it actually really does ! How can this be?? (There were country flags just to name one thing that made multiplayer look better, heck where are the team logo's ??)

Anyway I won't continue on this as Team17 OR cares and has already read this OR they couldn't be arsed.

One bug I didn't see anyone mention before : I CAN ONLY PLAY 1 ROUND ! If I put 3 or 5 rounds in my custom style, the main menu appears after pressing 'continue' 2 times. I want to play more than 1 round against the same people, not just one ...

Because this thing is so darn cool, every idiot tries to create a cool mission and fails dreadfully and still those missions can be downloaded from anywhere in the Internet. That's what happened to WWP, at least


Nah, WWP multiplayer missions failed because they were only 2 player and didnt send over the network. If people have to go off and download things first then they just wont bother.

I must say it would be more awesome just to allow everyone to host oneself. HB is just a nice but longwinded workaround.
The problem in 90% of the cases where people can't host is that those people have either (A) no clue about their router/firewall/NAT configurations or (B) are too stinking lazy to get a clue.
The other 10% are indeed people that have a restricted internet connection (uni campus, work), a restricting ISP or, very rarely, a crappy router that can't be configured.

For those 10% only workarounds like HB or WormNAT will help (or changing ISP, router, uni, work ;)).
The other 90% don't really have an excuse, because you can read up on portforwarding, routing and firewall configurations.
And if you're one of the stinking lazy people: get off your stinking lazy ass!

The problem in 90% of the cases where people can't host is that those people have either (A) no clue about their router/firewall/NAT configurations or (B) are too stinking lazy to get a clue.
The other 10% are indeed people that have a restricted internet connection (uni campus, work), a restricting ISP or, very rarely, a crappy router that can't be configured.

For those 10% only workarounds like HB or WormNAT will help (or changing ISP, router, uni, work ;)).
The other 90% don't really have an excuse, because you can read up on portforwarding, routing and firewall configurations.
And if you're one of the stinking lazy people: get off your stinking lazy ass!

When i found out i had to port forward something to be able to host i got completely confused. I had no idea what port forwarding was. It's not that easy to understand at first. But as soon as you've done it, it's no problem to do it again ;)

oh, and also, i had no idea what it could do to our router (like viruses and stuff)

And if you're one of the stinking lazy people: get off your stinking lazy ass!

First, I agree with Esbern: Routers and networking as a whole is a complicated matter, and second, you forgot a few groups of players.

I, for instance, don't own the router. My father doesn't allow me to bustle around with it just to be able to play some videogame. Any more tips you'd like to give me on that? Guess not :p

You don't really have anything to do with the router itself. You just port forward through the firewall. Hosting Guide Link (http://worms2d.info/Hosting_Guide)

I port forwarded and allowed basically everything related to Armageddon and it still didn't work so I went with WormNAT2.

I can't host normally and using hosting buddy, it takes that long to make up a match that every player leaves my lobby after a short amount of time :p






The best thing to do is make a room and immediately close it with "!close"

Then go about adding your extra things as needed. I always adjust the default HB shopper to my own needs (I load a BIG map, add 250 1 sec mines, sometimes superweapons to spice things up, plus a few other tweaks. If you do all this tweaking while there are players waiting in your lobby, they will leave. Worms Armageddon players don't seem to have any patience. So, after you've edited the scheme to your liking, reopen it and it'll fill up in no time. Then the only thing to worry about is if that guy who shouts "NOOB NOOB I F**K YUR MOTHER NOOB" is in the game, or if you have quitters :)