http://wii.ign.com/articles/845/845431p1.html


I'm glad to hear all the gesture controls are working, but if that WiFi isn't in the final version, it's going to hurt the sales a fair bit imo.

I am not that excited anymore. Nearly 20 weapons!:eek: that is quite terrible. I was expecting 30, at least!

I fear this Space Oddity may be the Wii's version of Open Warfare on the DS.

Meaning, it will be extremely disappointing by lacking many of the features the we expect/want and seemingly taking a big step backwards.

But this would also mean that they would out-source A Space Oddity 2 to a group of developers with the ability to deliver all the features we desire and more, hopefully, because OW2 is probably the best Worms game made in the past decade.

This is what i fear as well. Because there's little weapons, and we might not be able to go online. But i am still getting it tho. The water in the background looks good.

Hmm... it's a touchy matter, and it really depends on what the demo IGN got was supposed to represent. If it's just a demo, then WiFi is probably still in: T17 kept the online mode out of the Worms4 demo until the day just before it was released. But if it's a representation of the final product, then it means that it's out.
Lets see what Team17 say. If they say anything at all.

The content for this title was decided/locked down some time ago. During later discussions with the publisher (THQ, who act as our partner on console editions for Wii, DS and PSP) it was decided that online would not be part of the game pretty much because it was strongly felt that the Wii market/users was much, much more casual than other platforms and the emphasis was to be put into social, casual multiplayer modes & play. We appreciated that this decision would most likely disappoint some fans of the series, but the decisions were taken with the market & type of players who have Wii machines in mind.

As with most Wii games, this is not being built for hard-core players but for a very broad, but still maturing marketplace. We have put a lot of effort into making the game play to the strengths of the Wii system in terms of gestures and there is some simplification of weapon ranges to ensure it's more readily understandable by a wider market (fans of the series take all that for granted).

With regards the comment about outsourcing WOW2, I must underline that practically all the design, art & audio (as well as the original worms code/design the main game-code is based on) were all built, made and controlled production-wise at Team17. 2Tribes did a great job of building the game for us, but to suggest that it was 2Tribes only (and nothing to do with T17) is very wide of the mark.

As with pretty much all games development, content & features are largely governed by the amount of time we have and budget available to develop it allied with common-sense and yes, sometimes tough decisions to make. Most game-fans just don't have a real grasp of how games are made or don't understand the fact that developers tend to deliver what a publisher asks them to given examination of a market & any pertaining commercial issues - that we don't just sit there building something until we think it's ready, or what whims people have.

I don't intend to get into a long debate about this, since that won't change a thing.

The content for this title was decided/locked down some time ago. During later discussions with the publisher (THQ, who act as our partner on console editions for Wii, DS and PSP) it was decided that online would not be part of the game pretty much because it was strongly felt that the Wii market/users was much, much more casual than other platforms and the emphasis was to be put into social, casual multiplayer modes & play. We appreciated that this decision would most likely disappoint some fans of the series, but the decisions were taken with the market & type of players who have Wii machines in mind.

As with most Wii games, this is not being built for hard-core players but for a very broad, but still maturing marketplace. We have put a lot of effort into making the game play to the strengths of the Wii system in terms of gestures and there is some simplification of weapon ranges to ensure it's more readily understandable by a wider market (fans of the series take all that for granted).

With regards the comment about outsourcing WOW2, I must underline that practically all the design, art & audio (as well as the original worms code/design the main game-code is based on) were all built, made and controlled production-wise at Team17. 2Tribes did a great job of building the game for us, but to suggest that it was 2Tribes only (and nothing to do with T17) is very wide of the mark.

As with pretty much all games development, content & features are largely governed by the amount of time we have and budget available to develop it allied with common-sense and yes, sometimes tough decisions to make. Most game-fans just don't have a real grasp of how games are made or don't understand the fact that developers tend to deliver what a publisher asks them to given examination of a market & any pertaining commercial issues - that we don't just sit there building something until we think it's ready, or what whims people have.

I don't intend to get into a long debate about this, since that won't change a thing.

Just because the Wii may have a more casual audience does not mean this game will sell to them.

A small effort in developement for a niche game will show negatively in sales.

Garbage games can get away with it because parents and people that actually enjoy "Casual" games buy them for short semi stupid fun. Worms has been and always will be for worms fans, not fake worms fans.

Comparing this to say, EA playground, and thinking that because space oddity is more "family friendly" it will sell better on wii is just ignorant. People aren't going to pick this up as a casual game just to mess around with. Even if it is dumbed down ( shot assist ) it has a learning curve. Worms is very different from just about every game. It is purchased through word of mouth, and largely through the internet. Without online play the advertising for this to non worm fans is going to be laughable. I already know 3 people that wouldnt get it without online coop.

Most of the negative responses you have are of fans, people that have been playing the real worms games for atleast a decade. Keep in mind not all of them have degrees in business or marketing, but some might. Discounting the wii as a casual system isnt a mistake, stating that there is a better chance selling a casual worms game on that system is.

See sales of resident evil 4 wii edition.

The guys that made the decsion ( ill be overly generous in estimations here ) that selling a dumbed down worms to possible 7 million casuals ( that are going to be buying wii fit not worms ) instead of selling a real deal worms to the possible 3 million ( again generous estimations ) made a pretty obvious mistake.

I dont mind the mistake as long as the sequel spruces things up, I'll wait for that. I just don't want this to be thrown onto the pile that "only nintendo games sell on nintendo consoles" Fact of the matter is if third parties did what they were actaully good at ( team 17, making 2d worms games ) and not trying to compete with nintendo ( casual sorta right now, not turn based strategy games) they might actually sell some games.

Find whoever it has to be and let it be known. Money will be saved if this game has to be delayed for online play. Even if the game isnt up to par gameplay wise, and if the dumbing down of weapons and gestures is rough, I'd probably still get it if it had decent online play.

I am aware business is business and money is money, chances are things arent changing. Just make sure everyone sees the poll results ign is getting on that page. If it stays over 90% it'll be real hard to sell to the expanded audience, when the worms fan won't push it in their face. As long as the sequel is worth a purchase I can wait. I toughed it and skipped open warfare 1, and even if this isnt as bad, I will do it again.

Spadge, not trying to do any attacks or to debate with you. Stating the facts hoping they get through to atleast the sequel. Any work you've done/done with the group I'm sure I've experienced it and have enjoyed it. Mostly a negative post I'm aware but thanks for any work you have done, and thanks for given a clear cut response.

There's really no point in debating, I'm sure Team17 would have implemented an online mode if it was up to them (providing unlimited funds/time).
Also, a 90% votes for online mode in IGN doesn't mean much, as people who visit gaming websites and more so vote on them are by no means casual gamers and a tiny bit of the market audience.

on a side note, waso sounds like some sort of japanese food.

What a cop out. The controls look great, but I won't be buying this game because online play is what makes Worms great. So disappointed. So, so disappointed.

I'm with you guys. I was really hyped for this game until I read Spadge's post. This game might be the reason why I won't buy a Wii. :(

I can guarantee you, that when EGM reviews WASO, their "bad" feature will read "desperately needs online play".

Read my text: Worms has never been a casual game.

I don't buy that Worms is all about online play at all. Yes, it's important and yes it's good fun, but the game is at it's best side by side with others where you communicate and laugh together. Purely social. People recall the online PC stuff and forget that it was social on there since you were chatting in the game all the time, that's not something that could occur on the Wii - it's a reason why 2 games of Mario Smash football aside, I've just not bothered to play Wii online myself. We also are prepared for reviews that suggest online is the be-all and end-all of Worms and Wii games in general, even if its making the same mistake as other hard-core players.

Online with Wii is less sociable than say the 360, where contact with others is somewhat wary and not openly encouraged. There's no mic's and in many cases you might as well be playing a CPU opponent given the withdrawal of social interaction.

When we first started up the design for the title back in late 2006, there was an intention to support online play but this was later re-considered (as many things do in develoment) with our publishing partners when an objective view of the kind of player & player atmosphere we were trying to appease (which is certainly not the hardcore, nor the players who seek online play fulfillment).

Were we to control all aspects of everything, we'd probably end up with utterly feature-packed titles that took 4 years to develop and 2 years to fully test & release in todays market.

Again, we expect that a vocal minority will be disappointed about the lack of online play, but the fact of the matter is that the Wii game excels in social party circumstances, which suits the game down to the ground.

With the new market, new types of gamers & play patterns emerge and whilst its difficult for hard-core guys to accept that people have a wii and just rent the odd title when they have social get-togethers, but it's what's happening.

As a company we'll always continue to try and produce titles that entertain and contain features we'd like to see given the time/cost of development. Its sometimes a little easier when we're in sole control of everything (like the 360 edition of Worms, which was the 2nd best selling XBLA title of 2007) and in those circumstances we'll also take criticism right on the chin - people grumbled about this, that and the other in the first announcement, but the majority of players seemed to think it was great value.

When we're working in a partnership with a publisher (like we do on Wii, PSP, DS) we have to listen to all aspects of the marketplace, publishers research and findings and we simply don't or can't make all the calls.

As ever we've a bunch of things going on right now, which will be announced in good time. As for the Wii doubters given the lack of online, I'd suggest you get some friends round and maybe rent the title for the weekend. It'd be a shame to miss out.

In the post above, you've got someone grumbling about this who doesn't even have a Wii - and we don't anticipate Worms ever really being a system-seller on any format (realistically speaking). I think this pretty much explains how all this net-based furore begins, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and clearly believes they do. For the hard-core who really want an online Worms game today, there are a ton of options (without the need to rush out and buy a Wii) so calm down, eh.

When you consider what type of Worms game is what (hard-core, casual, etc), research and industry reaction has proved to find that Worms is one of a few titles that sits right in the 'hot zone' a zone where casual and hard-core can adopt the game. This isn't the new 'casual game' buzz of the last 24 months, but based on facts borne over the last decade.

Making the game too hard-core (whereby hard-core to us means feature packed, less pick up and play, more difficult & skill-dependent, overly online focused) will put off a large percentage of the casual market and likewise, potentially making the game too casual could put off the hard-core players. We realise this and accept that those are the consequences when selecting feature sets - in this case, the Wii is utterly dominated by casual players so the decision has been to support a feature set that was safer in that respect.

And that really is that. :)

Online with Wii is less sociable than say the 360, where contact with others is somewhat wary and not openly encouraged. There's no mic's and in many cases you might as well be playing a CPU opponent given the withdrawal of social interaction.

In most of the online WA matches I play, most of the chat consists of "hf, nice, ty, u2, bl, vbl, lol, gg". Super Smash Bros Brawl's online communication system will consist of a few short phrases that you can write beforehand and say with a press of a button. Why not implement the same system with WASO?

Trust me, not much is going to be lost...

In most of the online WA matches I play, most of the chat consists of "hf, nice, ty, u2, bl, vbl, lol, gg". Super Smash Bros Brawl's online communication system will consist of a few short phrases that you can write beforehand and say with a press of a button. Why not implement the same system with WASO?

Trust me, not much is going to be lost...

SSB is a title developed by the platform holder, that whilst admittedly superb, is so late it missed the last platform it was intended for (Gamecube).

It's already very late on the Wii (and just got delayed again) and whilst I'm not holding the facts, I imagine the main reason for that is the implementation and testing of the online play (I'm still unsure as to how well that will work online given its a very, very fast "twitch" game). Nintendo may be fantastic, but they can't fix internet data latency!

SSB will have had a development time & budget that we simply cannot ever come close to. When you own the platform and the market, you can certainly make all the right decisions, most of the time.

Your point about GL, HF etc is so hard-core it's untrue (what do those phrases mean to casual players?) but I understand it as the WA community was very hard-core. Perhaps we'll get CPU players to do that in future then everyone's happy.