I really wanted to ask on this forum as it seems people around here have some brain cells. I am having a rather difficult time in deciding which console to buy; wii, xbox360 or ps3, i could go any way as they all have their own positives if a decent salesperson pitched me face to fcae then i'd probably go for what he was selling.

I do have a psp and i have to admit the psp is one capable little puppy and i love the operating system they have got on it. I'm into strategy and puzzle games and action adventure. I am leaning towards ps3 now the price has come down but still i won't buy til next year as i STILL have games for my gamecube that i haven't even unrapped (residentevil4, zelda TP, viewtiful joe and fire emblem) so i still have at least 6 months of gaming to do b4 oi buy another console.

Wii is cheapest, but if you want next-gen graphics, then probably the 360, as there aren't as many good games on the PS3, and most of the good games it will get will also be available on the 360. Not to mention the 360 is cheaper.

Here in my country I can get two 360's for the price of a PS3. :p
And one 360 for the price of the Wii... go figure. :rolleyes:

Wii is the most fun. But 360 has the better graphics, unless you're ok with cartoonier graphics. Don't bother even thinkingabout getting a PS3.

Get Wii or Xbox360. If you like games with real good graphics then 360. If you want to buy a cheap but with real fun games, then Wii is for you.

PS3: Great games but you'd have to be rich to buy it

Wii: Great price, good games, but not the greatest graphics

Xbox360: I just know they have Great graphics

I would go with the wii.

Xbox360 for the processing power and graphics.
Wii for the gameplay and multiplayer.

I voted Wii, btw.

Come on, support PS3 as there wont be anymore PlayStations in the future. :(

Anyways, the PS3 can be used to play previous PS games and it doubles up as a Blu-Ray player.

and by the way, compare a PS3 racing game (say, Gran Turismo HD) and a 360 one (say, Project Gotham Racing, which fyi, claims that they have one of the best 360 game graphics) and you'll be shocked to find the PGR utterly disappointing.

My friend from Australia came to my country and we went window-shopping for next-gen consoles and upon seeing the PGR, he asked "I didnt know that you could play a PS1 game on a 360... Is it some modification or what?" and the PS3 "What movie is that?"

I'm not lying i suar swere swhere swear!

p.s. bear in mind the red ring of death problem on a 360.

p.p.s. i voted for the Bus Play Station Tree.

p.p.p.s. If you're on a tight budget go for the Wii. You get to keep fit!

p.p.p.p.s Microsoft never excels in anything other than their OSes and messengers and some other stuff. Their antiviruses, music players, internet browsers, consoles, etc, suck. sorry, bill.

p.s. bear in mind the red ring of death problem on a 360.


I know someone who has an Xbox360 and they said that the red ring of death is like a myth to him. He loves that system.

either wii or 360. your choice
:p

if you like psp, i am guessing you like it because of all the extras too, and not just based on the games. so go for ps3. there is not even a question about it, and make sure you get a version with wifi.

first of all, you get a whole lot of cross compatibility between the two. while within the range of wifi (not even necessarily your ps3's, if you have it connected to internet), you'd be able to use your ps3 to stream all the music, video (80gb vs whatever you have on your memory stick), and use a full internet browser. i had no problems streaming youtube videos via my ps3 directly onto my psp.

second, you will be happy with what ps3 itself is capable of. if you are not satisfied with what it does on the sony's os, you can always throw linux onto it as a second os and then your ps3 is capable of doing anything your pc can do. but even without linux, it is a full media center. it can even share the media library with your pc using home network.

and of course, games. games on ps3 aren't really all that different from games on 360. that means next generation graphics and physics, plus, you tend to get a lot of extra content on the blu-ray disks. some games use sixaxis controller rather creatively, others, not so much.

one more thing that is coming ps3 way is sony's home. it's still in beta stages, and will not come out until early '08, the last i heard, but it should be very impressive when it does.

The Xbox 360 is one of the best choices here. It has High Power, High Graphics Power, great games (such as EA's "skate." I LURVE DAT GAME!!!!), and...well, awesome controllers. They feel as if they are BUILT for YOUR OWN HANDS.

They feel as if they are BUILT for YOUR OWN HANDS.So were the original Xbox controllers, but for some reason everyone hated them :p

SEGA Dreamcast

Trust your instincts, go for PS3! I bought it in March and have NOT regretted it for a second. It. Is. AWESOME :eek:

Also, what quaker said

Anyways, the PS3 can be used to play previous PS games
...not so much anymore... (http://www.realvg.org/display.php?type=news&id=193)

last i checked, you will still be able to get the fully backwards compatible version in the states. the cutbacks were made for european markets. and since the games are no longer region protected, you might as well import your system.

Invest your money! Win big!

But seriously, I can't really say what console to get unless I knew in-depth what your preferences were.
I'd say 360, mostly for being a decent system overall (though the red ring of death thing kinda blows chunks).
You could get a Wii if you're up for something different. Cheaper than the others, too.
And you could get a PS3 if you want to. It'll get better exclusives eventually, I think.

Honestly, I'd decide how to spend my money for myself rather than letting a bunch of strangers on a forum decide. :p

Okay thanks for the advice pals, now i need help on whic car insurance to buy, (only jokin). But seriously what is this 'ring of death' it sounds scary:eek:.

I don't understand how people who want a games console will willingly go out and part with money for a PlayStation 3. It has an utterly abominable games library at the moment and, as Valve and EA have testified, it's a real bugger to code for. Sony have made so many mistakes with that system.

I voted 360, and I would also vote Wii as well. Wii60 seems to be the combo for this generation of consoles.

Okay thanks for the advice pals, now i need help on whic car insurance to buy, (only jokin). But seriously what is this 'ring of death' it sounds scary:eek:.

When the red lights come on around the, I presume, power button. From what I've read I gather than one of the common causes is simply overheating due to not having enough ventilation. It is a powerful PC after all, and if it's shoved in a small cupboard between a DVD player and something else, it's no small surprise it dies.

last i checked, you will still be able to get the fully backwards compatible version in the states. the cutbacks were made for european markets. and since the games are no longer region protected, you might as well import your system.
Huh. I thought that the backwards compatibility on the PS3 still had region locking though...
Anyone got a confirmation?

I voted 360, and I would also vote Wii as well. Wii60 seems to be the combo for this generation of consoles.
Not suprising, really. The 360 is the best console for traditional games, and the Wii has all the innovative games.

and, as Valve and EA have testified, it's a real bugger to code for.
wow, you found who to listen to. have you seen valve's code? i've got the leaked source of hl2 the day it started floating on the net. i wouldn't say it's horrible, but there are a lot of 'wtf were they thinking' places. i know it wasn't finished, but if you start with a mess of a code, it rarely improves in the process. and their mod development library isn't exactly well coded either. i never tried to put together any extremely complex mods for hl2, but i have written weapon and vehicle mods. trust me, valve is not someone you want to listen to on ease of coding.

as for ea, do i even need to comment? seriously.

generally, what i'm seeing is that dev companies spoiled by directx tend to whine about ps3. serious devs don't. i really would like to see what someone like id software would say about coding for the platform. they tend to knock together awesome code, and they have always stood by good, clean, cross platform libraries.

wow, you found who to listen to. have you seen valve's code? i've got the leaked source of hl2 the day it started floating on the net. i wouldn't say it's horrible, but there are a lot of 'wtf were they thinking' places. i know it wasn't finished, but if you start with a mess of a code, it rarely improves in the process. and their mod development library isn't exactly well coded either. i never tried to put together any extremely complex mods for hl2, but i have written weapon and vehicle mods. trust me, valve is not someone you want to listen to on ease of coding.

as for ea, do i even need to comment? seriously.

generally, what i'm seeing is that dev companies spoiled by directx tend to whine about ps3. serious devs don't. i really would like to see what someone like id software would say about coding for the platform. they tend to knock together awesome code, and they have always stood by good, clean, cross platform libraries.
http://www.drmcninja.com/images/highfive.png

wow, you found who to listen to. have you seen valve's code? i've got the leaked source of hl2 the day it started floating on the net. i wouldn't say it's horrible, but there are a lot of 'wtf were they thinking' places. i know it wasn't finished, but if you start with a mess of a code, it rarely improves in the process. and their mod development library isn't exactly well coded either. i never tried to put together any extremely complex mods for hl2, but i have written weapon and vehicle mods. trust me, valve is not someone you want to listen to on ease of coding.
Because alpha code is always polished to perfection.

generally, what i'm seeing is that dev companies spoiled by directx tend to whine about ps3. serious devs don't. i really would like to see what someone like id software would say about coding for the platform. they tend to knock together awesome code, and they have always stood by good, clean, cross platform libraries.

Except that every developer I'm in touch with seems to hate working with the PS3. maybe that's because of just how obscenely difficult it is to code for. Team17 aren't really a good company to ask about this, seeing as they were developing something for Sony and thus had the support of SCEE. That's not something all developers will have and I think comparing 360 releases to their PS3 counterparts is going to be an interesting pass time over the next year or so.

wow, you found who to listen to. have you seen valve's code? i've got the leaked source of hl2 the day it started floating on the net. i wouldn't say it's horrible, but there are a lot of 'wtf were they thinking' places. i know it wasn't finished, but if you start with a mess of a code, it rarely improves in the process. and their mod development library isn't exactly well coded either. i never tried to put together any extremely complex mods for hl2, but i have written weapon and vehicle mods. trust me, valve is not someone you want to listen to on ease of coding.
Umm... you do realise that the majority of Valve's games are then suspect to a lot of heavy modding? Heck, CounterStrike shows that even their mods get heavily modded! Somehow, I don't think you're gonna get a lot of respect by saying that their code is really badly done!

as for ea, do i even need to comment? seriously.
Yes you do. EA make a heluval lot of games: if anyone knows which console is better at what, it's them!

Umm... you do realise that the majority of Valve's games are then suspect to a lot of heavy modding?
very much so. you can do a lot with hl2 sdk, i will not deny that. but there are a lot of parts to it that are much more of a pain than they need to be. i have written hl2 mods. you can get a lot done. but you need to spend a lot more time working on it than should be necessary.
Yes you do. EA make a heluval lot of games: if anyone knows which console is better at what, it's them!
by that measure we really should be talking to microsoft. oh, wait.
Because alpha code is always polished to perfection.
i know it wasn't finished, but if you start with a mess of a code, it rarely improves in the process.
that was very predictable of you, hence, the preemptive strike.
Except that every developer I'm in touch with seems to hate working with the PS3.
most of developers out there prefer to work with directx. it really says more about the pathetic state of today's game development industry than about the system. oh, and you should know by now my oppinion on the t17's coding team.

i'll tell you what, s2k. you seem to have a good grasp on who does what where in gaming industry. can you find a quote by anyone from id software on how it is to work with ps3? they are a developer i respect not only for the games they have done, but for how they done it. if they say that ps3 is a pain, i'll take their word for it. something tells me, however, that they are going to like ps3 for its power and not be scared off by a slightly different architecture.

As far as the people on youtube are saying, Sony is starting to go really idiotic with their game choices.:( for example: the PS3 has a lot of useless junk on it which makes it unreasonably overpriced and cutting away it's ability to play PS2 games just ruins it even more.

I don't know anyone at id, but I do have a couple of contacts at Activision. If I can remember to, I'll make some calls.

i'll tell you what, s2k. you seem to have a good grasp on who does what where in gaming industry. can you find a quote by anyone from id software on how it is to work with ps3? they are a developer i respect not only for the games they have done, but for how they done it. if they say that ps3 is a pain, i'll take their word for it. something tells me, however, that they are going to like ps3 for its power and not be scared off by a slightly different architecture.
Hold up: the only experience ID has in developing games for the PS3 is in Rage, which was only announced two months ago! That's all!

i used to hate sony because i grew up into a nintendo fanboy as i had the gameboy and n64. Howwver after sampling the psp, i just can't fault the damn thing (save perhaps the price and battery life) however all sony products are overpriced but then you always do get quality and LONG lasting performance from a reliable company. My friend next door is getting a ps3 in the post immenently (very soon) so i'll see first hand. The 360 does sound good and i like the look of bioshock, however the idea of a complete entertainment system with an OS (from ps3) does appeal to me. The thought of being able to run a linux does too.

I just think i am growing out of nintendo and if the wii is trying to appeal to me as an older person it seems to be failing. FRom what i have heard is that it is a hell of a lot of fun for the first weeks and for (drunken) parties and thats about it!

LONG lasting performance
Not really. the PS2 and PS3 are infamous for their lack of durability. The amount of times I've heard that the PS2 went bust simply due to thunder storms really suprised me; and the PS3 isn't better, from what I've heard.

Not really. the PS2 and PS3 are infamous for their lack of durability. The amount of times I've heard that the PS2 went bust simply due to thunder storms really suprised me; and the PS3 isn't better, from what I've heard.

haven't heard anything yet, but i have heard of 360's going mad (hot). Woo i'm defending the ps3, NEVER thought i'd defend sony's systems.

but i have heard of 360's going mad (hot).
...
Obviously, you've never been close to an active PS3...

that is true. feels like standing next to a car engine that somebody was just riding at high rpm. but with higher processing power you expect higher heat exhaust, so it's only expected of ps3 and 360.
Hold up: the only experience ID has in developing games for the PS3 is in Rage, which was only announced two months ago! That's all!
that still means that people are already working with an sdk and should be able to make some comments. besides, all the comments i've heard about ps3 being difficult to code refference architecture as the problem. so anyone who has read and understood the cbe manual should be able to make comments on the system. personally, i found nothing in the cbe manuals that makes it any more difficult to code than a 486 under dos running in protected mode and utilizing the floating point co-processor as well as the dma units. having done the later, i really don't see where the complaints come from.

Not really. the PS2 and PS3 are infamous for their lack of durability. The amount of times I've heard that the PS2 went bust simply due to thunder storms really suprised me; and the PS3 isn't better, from what I've heard.

Eh? I've never heard of PS2s breaking on large scale? Mine has lasted me since its launch and Im not exactly 'gentle' with it?

Same for PS3, WHERE have you heard all this?

...
Obviously, you've never been close to an active PS3...

I have one, the floor underneath gets warm (duh), thats about it

Have you ever been close to an active PS3? :rolleyes:

The PS3 is currently a waste of money unless you really want a blue-ray player.
If you want it for games, wait a year or a year and a half. It'll be cheaper, and will have more good games to play. Currently the Xbox360 has more fun games to play and is cheaper. Not to mention that most of the good games comming out for the PS3 in the near future are mostly also comming out for the Xbox.

The PS3 is currently a waste of money unless you really want a blue-ray player.
oh yeah, i knew i was forgetting something. i just got an hdtv. need to find some place to rent blu ray movies.

but yeah, if you want a system just for the games, 360 is a better deal. but that's why i said that owning and liking a psp is a good indicator that you'd like ps3. both systems are intended to be more than just gaming systems.

Wii i just cannot vote on this poll

Wii i just cannot vote on this poll

why the hell shoul i get a wii, i mean i've got a gamecube and third party support for that was awful. why wii ?

There's good games for it, it's dirt cheap aaaaaand you can emulate awesome old Snes and N64 games, etc. Did I mention it's dirt cheap?

Well unless you live in a third world country like me, in which case it's probably more expensive than A FREAKING XBOX 360! :mad:

you can emulate awesome old Snes
Bah!
You can emulate SNES on mobile phones.
unless you live in a third world country like me
Since when is Mexico considered a third world country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Well im buying an XBOX 360 on the 1st of december 2007....

So i would say that you should buy one too....

But remember there are a few things to consider when buying an Xbox 360.

Make sure the model is made AFTER JUNE 2007...

Or buy the Special Edition HALO 3 camoflauge design Xbox360 because it contains Better solder, and the new and improved bigger and better Heatsinks.... VERY IMPORTANT...

Ps3 is overpriced, and requires an HD tv... which is also overpriced...

With the 360 you can buy an HD - VGA cable which plugs into your PC's monitor, giving you HD... and saving you the trouble of buying an HD TV...
Plus the cable is dirt cheap, compared to an HD TV...

well hope that helps... just beware : THE RED RING OF DEATH...

Plus the PS3 has hardly any titles... the Xbox 360 has at least 200 more games than ps3...

Bah!
You can emulate SNES on mobile phones.

It's not the same tho, current emulators almost allways have glithces or the sound doesn't sound great, whereas [I assume] the Wii does it perfectly.
Plus it's legal.

Since when is Mexico considered a third world country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world
It's third world hidden under a first world mask.

It's not the same tho, current emulators almost allways have glithces or the sound doesn't sound great, whereas [I assume] the Wii does it perfectly.
Plus it's legal.
I played may SNES games emulated on my PC perfectly.

I played may SNES games emulated on my PC perfectly.
I've played all my favorite snes games emulated in my PC, and they didn't play perfectly.
Super Mario RPG rom has some colour and sound glitches, the Donkey Kong games have some sprite glitches, etc.

The only thing stopping me from buying a ps3 now is the price (which has got better) and the lack of games. But i had a look at it on wikipedia and it looks swell! I'll have a first hand look of my mates tommorrow. But the OS, the ability to run a linux are big pulling powers. We'll see.

But the OS, the ability to run a linux are big pulling powers. We'll see.
So... what exactly is wrong with a PC?

So... what exactly is wrong with a PC?

well actually i tried to run a linux on one, but it was too much hassel and ddn't work. I guess the ps3 is nearly a PC, but there will be sony exclusive games in the future, lemmings for example.

well actually i tried to run a linux on one, but it was too much hassel and ddn't work. I guess the ps3 is nearly a PC, but there will be sony exclusive games in the future, lemmings for example.
Yes, but then there'll also be PC games that weren't made for the PS3, which are sure to outnumber the PS3 games not made for PC.

So... what exactly is wrong with a PC?
nothing at all. you really should have a pc before you invest in a next-gen console. but if you are going to have both, you might as well have linux on both. for me, personally, it is more about opportunity to run custom code on an alternative architecture than anything else. i think it would be fun to write a game specifically for ps3 linux.

wave, if you had problems with linux on pc, on ps3 it will not be any easier. if anything, it will be more difficult, because you will have to recompile a lot of stuff by hand.
I guess the ps3 is nearly a PC
just keep in mind the differences in architecture. you will not be able to run any pc games without x86 emulation, and considering the overhead required for emulation, that means no modern games. but you should be able to run dos games on ps3 without much trouble using dos box. you might also be able to run some older w95 and w98 games by running a virtual machine.

Yes, but then there'll also be PC games that weren't made for the PS3, which are sure to outnumber the PS3 games not made for PC.

Yes but a PC able to play all those games (at any decent speed) will cost FAR more than a PS3

It's not the same tho, current emulators almost allways have glithces or the sound doesn't sound great, whereas [I assume] the Wii does it perfectly.

I have emulators for all consoles (maybe) from NES to PS1. ALL work perfectly

I have emulators for all consoles (maybe) from NES to PS1. ALL work perfectly
As I pointed out before, I have tried different emulators and roms for some of my favorite Snes and N64 games and they do have glitches. And most of the less popular games get crappier roms, like a Sim Ants rom that crashes mid-game.

WOW, just came bak from playing ps3 at my mates house and the HD defintion blew me away whilst playing resistance which was ok and yes the sony OS is so cool, can't wait for sony HOME.

I have emulators for all consoles (maybe) from NES to PS1. ALL work perfectly

That's ever so slightly illegal, though.

can't wait for sony HOME.

Everyone acts like these internet community environments are SO COOL, but they always forget that most people act like total dicks on the internet. :p

Anyway, you clearly want the PS3, so go for that one.

That's ever so slightly illegal, though.
emulators are far from illegal. neither are roms, if you own the game. so if you want to keep it legal, all you have to do is buy an old cartridge of the game, and then download a rom. considering how cheap these things are anymore, it shouldn't be a problem.
Everyone acts like these internet community environments are SO COOL, but they always forget that most people act like total dicks on the internet. :p
the solution to that is simple. stick to people you know.

the solution to that is simple. stick to people you know.
Yes, but it's generally presumed that if you know these people, there's no need to have an internet world to meet them!

Yes, but it's generally presumed that if you know these people, there's no need to have an internet world to meet them!

if u know someone u don't meeet them, this is just a way of han=ving fun and staying in tou=ch.

NB ps3 does have lemmings so that does it for me belive it or not.

Yes, but it's generally presumed that if you know these people, there's no need to have an internet world to meet them!
i know people all over the world. i can't afford to fly over to meet them very often, and while it can be argued that something like home is just a glorified messenger, spacial relations are still important in communications, so a virtual world is a great meeting place.
ps3 does have lemmings so that does it for me belive it or not.great game, by the way.

emulators are far from illegal. neither are roms, if you own the game. so if you want to keep it legal, all you have to do is buy an old cartridge of the game, and then download a rom. considering how cheap these things are anymore, it shouldn't be a problem.

Not always.
Some countries allow people to use ROMs as backups, but in other countries (Like the US), it's illegal even if you own the game.
Nintendo actually says that they don't allow ROMs at all.
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
Whether this applies even to countries that do allow 2nd copies, I don't know. It might be part of the User Agreement and all that, so it's slippery.

Also, you didn't say this, but I think I just ought to also mention that the "ROMs are okay if you delete them after 24 hours" rule is totally false, no matter where you live.

Buying a real copy of the game you have a ROM of may sooth one's conscience, but it wouldn't hold up in court.

the solution to that is simple. stick to people you know.

I never thought of that, for some reason.
That could actually be interesting.
Meeting new people might still be annoying, though, as any public area would have a high idiot:decent ratio. :p

Hopefully it will be better regulated than Habbo Hotel or Second Life. Maybe public areas which allow booting of annoying people? It's not like I've followed this project closely.

why the hell shoul i get a wii, i mean i've got a gamecube and third party support for that was awful. why wii ?

Because of the pick-up-and-playability of the unique control system and the brilliant multiplayer. Plus, as said before, you can emulate clasic Mega Drive/N64/SNES games on it.

Also, you didn't say this, but I think I just ought to also mention that the "ROMs are okay if you delete them after 24 hours" rule is totally false, no matter where you live.
right. i have no clue where this myth started.

as for having rom copy, first of all, if you made the copy yourself, there is nothing they can do about it. as for downloading it off the internet, they can try to make a case out of it, but it is a really shaky one.
Plus, as said before, you can emulate clasic Mega Drive/N64/SNES games on it.
you can play all these plus nes, gameboy, gba, atari, amiga, and dos games on the ps3. you just have to install linux on it.

I have been emulating for over 12 years, and i can say....

if you OWN the ORIGINAL... you can have as many ROMS of it as you want.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL... no matter where you are in the world....

It is ILLEGAL how ever, to host the roms for download... that much is true.

But if you OWN it... you can ROM it...

Plus the whole 24 hour "TEST PHASE" is a load of rubbish inspired by hackers.
To try give us a loop hole to pirate...

Coming from a hacker... believe it.

I have been emulating for over 12 years, and i can say....

if you OWN the ORIGINAL... you can have as many ROMS of it as you want.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL... no matter where you are in the world....

It is ILLEGAL how ever, to host the roms for download... that much is true.

But if you OWN it... you can ROM it...

Plus the whole 24 hour "TEST PHASE" is a load of rubbish inspired by hackers.
To try give us a loop hole to pirate...

Coming from a hacker... believe it.
Actually, I think what PB said is true, that if the backup is not made by you it's still illegal. And most people who play ROM's don't know how to make them themselves.
So basically, any ROM downloaded from the net is illegal.

Coming from a hacker... believe it.
1) how do you identify beginning of a function in x86 binary?
2) how can you exploit buffer overflow?
3) why is it so important to protect the stack in a secure application?

then we talk.
Actually, I think what PB said is true, that if the backup is not made by you it's still illegal.
just like pigbuster said, it depends on your local copyright laws. there are some countries where it is legal, no matter what the publisher might put into license agreement. it is the 'void where prohibited' catch.

yes sorry he is CORRECT... only if YOU make the ROM then it is legal...
Sorry i didnt read it right...

And quakerWorm.... i don't need to try prove myself as a hacker. to you.

Answer me this.... What and why is Ascii important to the function of PHREAKING????

so wait, you want to use the 'fact' that you are a hacker to give yourself credibility on the post, but you don't think you need to prove anything to anybody? in that case, you should have avoided such a comment in the first place.

as for name recognition, on an open forum with user-selected screen name it means nothing. you should know better. you think 'quakerworm' is my handle anywhere else?

oh, and just because i do take it seriously
What and why is Ascii important to the function of PHREAKING????
unless you are manually handshaking a modem, it isn't. phreaking predates ascii codes, anyways. and you only need alphanumerics and a handful of symbols if you do want to communicate with a modem.

Well done QuakerWorm, you are correct.
the answer was "when you do it MANUALLY". im surprised. well done.
but anyway we totally going off the topic of this thread...
You can PM me if you wanna talk about any of this...

There's no need to proove anything Hackerman, pretty much everyone here already knows you're just a hacker wannabe.

Hmm mtlangelus... i get the impression you dont like me...
Its ok, everyone knows you just a WANNABE worms player...

questions stand, hackerman. even if you phreaked back in the days, it doesn't make you a hacker. not today, at any rate. yes, it is sad that i cannot simply take your word for it, but with all the script kids and other wannabes i have to ask. and no, you don't have to prove anything, but in that case, friendly advice. don't call yourself a hacker on the forum if you don't want to back it up. people will only make fun of you.

i got experience, i been challenged many times in the past 20 years!!!

Plus "HACKING" now-a-days, is not even hacking, its a fact of just running a
program to do it for you... back in the day, it was Call by call, ip by ip...
Ping after ping... you had to do it all yourself...

So by todays standards, i am an OLD SCHOOL hacker...

i was not trying to in any way, boast about my fact of being a hacker...
Just trying to say that from a hacker, what i said about roms was true.

But anyway, i understand completly, i do myself challenge many people.
You answered your question. so im happy.

And phreaking was only but the beginning of hacking back in the late 80's
90's... There are tons of wannabe's claiming what they have done....

So i totally understand your skepticism... :)

Anyway this thread is about which console to choose....

I still say buy an XBOX 360...

Plus "HACKING" now-a-days, is not even hacking, its a fact of just running a
program to do it for you... back in the day, it was Call by call, ip by ip...
Ping after ping... you had to do it all yourself...

So by todays standards, i am an OLD SCHOOL hacker...
even if you are a real old school phone phreak, you've been out of the loop for too long. yeah, script kids and dumb network crackers would like to think they are hacking. there are also some gullible people who don't know better. they are the only ones who think it to be hacking.

a true hacker performs one function and one function only. a hacker finds new creative ways to force hardware/software combinations to perform in ways not intended by design. it does not have to have anything to do with networks. it does not have to be done by hand. but if you are going to hack a system, you better know how that system works in fine detail.

today, if you are planning anything more sophisticated than a new form of dos attack, this means knowing in fine detail the behavior of an x86 code. the days when you could bring down a network by sending a hang up request to a modem are gone. today, if you want to bring down a server with no known vulnerabilities, you have to know how to force that server to execute code you are feeding it. if you don't know how to force a remote program to execute something from its buffers, you are not going to be hacking - old school or not.

yeah i agree, i miss the old DOS days... but hey life moves on....
Technologies change... The internet has evolved/ and hackers have too.

You forgot one important fact, Hacking or Hackers also have another purpose, The Pursuit of FREE INFORMATION... to be able to find virtually anything. Knowledge is Power. That was the original purpose for any of our activities....

The minute a Hacker, breaks into a system, and then does Harm of any kind.... Their title changed
to CRACKER... (not the same meaning by today's standards.)

But its just not the same, as it used to be. :p

I'd love to talk to an actual hacker about how the scene has changed over the past ten years.

hey Squirminator, drop Quakerworm a line, im sure he can tell you about the past ten years... My knowledge goes as far as 1987 - 1998 or so...
Quakerworm should be able to give more indepth about the last 10 years...
As we said, im very old school.... Dos days, early win 3.1, 95, and barely win 98.... (in my opinion, the only "REAL HACKING")

as i was saying now-a-days, programs have all the back ending codes, doing most of the really difficuly stuff for you, but as Quakerworm said, you still gotta really understand the system, you trying to get through too...

back in the day, trying to crack a password for instance, could take WEEKS.

but now-a-days, you just run a Crack Library, which goes through up to 3000 words a second, trying all the combinations, and making the job, an absolute breeze... (just gotta watch, your anti-tracing program, last thing you want is to be traced, because you took your time. A fatal move by many a Hacker)

i miss the old DOS days...
i know the feeling, even though i only caught the very end of the dos era, and even that only because of growing up in soviet russia.
You forgot one important fact, Hacking or Hackers also have another purpose, The Pursuit of FREE INFORMATION... to be able to find virtually anything. Knowledge is Power. That was the original purpose for any of our activities....
hm... i don't think that is what defines a hacker. it is just a good aim that hackers are instrumental in. you can fight for free information and not be a hacker.

Yes anyone can fight for free information... But any true hacker will tell you, that is exactly where and why we even began in the first place...

As i said, any malicious intent, damage, or harm, branded you a CRACKER.
nullifying your title as hacker... but too many people have distorted these terms over the years.

Those days will never return... so it all gets filed away into the historic old school hacker archives.

:)

That's ever so slightly illegal, though.
I AM UNCLEEEEEEEEN, or, what quaker said.


Btw: quaker do you, by any chance, play Quake?
Or, as an (unrelated) stab in the dark: does the word 'GreyHelium' mean anything to you?

if you OWN the ORIGINAL... you can have as many ROMS of it as you want..

Actually, ti is illegal to have ROMs of games released for Nintendo systems. It's expressly forbidden based on the content of their system and game warranties - even for back-up purposes. Even if you never play them. I forget the specific details, and I should do some more research, but this I know to be true.

hey Squirminator, drop Quakerworm a line, im sure he can tell you about the past ten years... My knowledge goes as far as 1987 - 1998 or so...
Quakerworm should be able to give more indepth about the last 10 years...
As we said, im very old school.... Dos days, early win 3.1, 95, and barely win 98.... (in my opinion, the only "REAL HACKING")

as i was saying now-a-days, programs have all the back ending codes, doing most of the really difficuly stuff for you, but as Quakerworm said, you still gotta really understand the system, you trying to get through too...

back in the day, trying to crack a password for instance, could take WEEKS.

but now-a-days, you just run a Crack Library, which goes through up to 3000 words a second, trying all the combinations, and making the job, an absolute breeze... (just gotta watch, your anti-tracing program, last thing you want is to be traced, because you took your time. A fatal move by many a Hacker)
tell me more!

tell me more!

look dudes i rather think you are hijacking my thread and although its insanely interesting :-/ i think that maybe my thread could be kept clean and on subject, please?

Right. Well, the advice I give to you is "get a Wii".

I say go for the console that you want. Make your own decision.

You should buy a snes man. It ***s the PS3. :cool:

snes... hehe that was funny....

Yeah my apologies WAVE... we kinda went off subject there for a while.

I still say get a xbox 360, its got a lot of perks. but hey in the end its up to you.

You should buy a snes man. It ***s the PS3. :cool:

This is actually true.

quaker do you, by any chance, play Quake?
point goes to splinter. though, i have never touched the new stuff. quake2 is where it is at.
I say go for the console that you want. Make your own decision.
useless comment of the day. yes, in the end he will get the console he wants, but he first needs to decide which console that is. if he's asking for people's opinions, he's not sure.

I say go for the console that you want. Make your own decision.

helpful as ever squirm, this thread was asking for help and as always you did the exact opposite. Please refrain from posting unless its entirely necesary, of course i will go for the console that I WANT, its just that i am not sure which one i want yet if any.

xbox 360 = no genre variety
wii = horrible ports and minigames, doesn't live up to its hype
ps3 = a few mediocre games
PC upgrade = Orange box and some RTS games, also lacks genre variety

Keep your PSP and get the latest Castlevania remake. A DS + Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents wouldn't hurt either.

xbox 360 = no genre variety - COMPLETLY INCORRECT.

totally wrong... the 360 has every genre expect maybe RTS...

there are sport games/fps shooters/third person shooters/puzzle/arcade/action/adventure...
to name but a few...

xbox 360 = no genre variety - COMPLETLY INCORRECT.
he said pc or all things lacks genre variety. pc. the mother of all genres that didn't come from early arcades. by far most of the games ever made saw their first light on the old ibms, apples, and amigas. and you complain about 360?

if you are calling yourself an old school hacker, at least try to play the part. when someone says something like that, you should go into a deep reminiscence mode, telling everyone that will listen how back in the day you had to know the interrupt number, dma, and base address of your sound card on the bus just to get the sound working. (i still think the game hung up if i hear a repeating sound loop. old habits die hard.) how you could only have 8 bit color on 320x200 because that's all the memory that was available for the graphics. (unless you got really creative) and how we still had more genres than there are today.

yeah i kinda just shut up now, or else im BOASTING... blah blah blah...

xbox 360 = no genre variety - COMPLETLY INCORRECT.

totally wrong... the 360 has every genre expect maybe RTS...

there are sport games/fps shooters/third person shooters/puzzle/arcade/action/adventure...
to name but a few...
Actually, you're right. 360's the best of the lot right now but I personally wouldn't purchase one just yet

helpful as ever squirm, this thread was asking for help and as always you did the exact opposite. Please refrain from posting unless its entirely necesary, of course i will go for the console that I WANT, its just that i am not sure which one i want yet if any.

I was being helpful. I was saying go for the console you want to get, as opposed to the console everyone else wants you to get. But hey, if you want to be a dick about it...

I was being helpful. I was saying go for the console you want to get, as opposed to the console everyone else wants you to get. But hey, if you want to be a dick about it...

there you go again being argumentative and not helpful (plus name calling which is become a regular thing for you).:( Look i value most peoples opinions around here, but as i said already i'll make my own mind up which is pretty obvious really to everyone except you. I DO want to know why people want me to get a certain console because their opinions may enlighten me.

at the moment i am on course for the ps3, however i haven't made a firm commitment and the other 2 aren't ruled out. If someone has a good reason why i shouldn't get a ps3 i want to hear it, eg that xbox360 ring of death thing sounds nasty and has put me off that a little.

Well how about the fact that the PS3 has a piddling library of games? I have a PS3 and so far I've bought a grand total of three games for it - Lemmings, Super Stardust HD, and Heavenly Sword. The library for the PS3 really is poor, and if you do intend to buy it I would suggest waiting a few months - maybe a year or so - for the library to build up. The SixAxis controller's tilt feature is also remarkably fiddly, and I actually turn off its functionality in the majority of the games I play except for games that absolutely require it, such as the Super Rub-a-Dub demo. It's also exceptionally tricky to code for, and while it may have a slight edge over the 360 on paper a lot of games ported to the PS3 experience poorer graphics or framerate drops in comparison to their 360 counterparts.

The Xbox 360 may have its flaws (some of which are addressed in newer versions of the console, in particular the new Arcade bundle and the Halo SE console which are both less prone to overheating) but what it does have is a larger library, a fantastic warranty and Tech Support, and a much nicer GUI in comparison to the PS3's. I play my 360 more than I play my PS3 - the PS23 tends to get used more as a DVD and Blu-ray player than anything else, but it does upconvert really well if you're connecting it to your TV via a HDMI cable (not all 360 models support HDMI, but the Elite does).

The Wii is great fun, but it's not really a console for hardcore gamers as it appears to be catering mostly to casual gamers for the time being. You'd do well to buy a 360 and a Wii together, which is surprisingly cheaper than the 60GB PS3 SKU.

Ultimately though, it's your decision. Do some research, see what games are out on the three systems that you like, and make a decision based on that. Regardless of what you may think I am trying to be helpful, and I'd appreciate it if you took your pettiness of of the main forum and kept it to the rather mean-spirited PMs you've been sending me.

a lot of games ported to the PS3 experience poorer graphics or framerate drops in comparison to their 360 counterparts.
there is your problem right there. if you port from any platform to any other, you will experience poorer performance. it is that simple. how about comparing native ps3 games to native 360 games? but do we really need to? we've seen what tech demos do. the only problem with ps3 is that there are very few competent programmers around. most of them are taking the, 'oh, it's too hard to code. i'll do it in visual basic,' route. it's pathetic, really.

Perhaps I should clarify: Games that are also being developed simultaneously for multiple consoles are also noticeably poorer on the PS3.

As for comparing the PS3 exclusives to the 360 exclusives, they may look prettier (and this is largely ebcause Sony offer support and back-up whereas Microsoft don't always offer these to third-party developers) but that doesnt' make them better games. Heavenly Sword is proof positive of this.

So sony are great for making their console hard to program for, while their competition have made their platforms easier. It's not their fault their console's in third place, it's the fault of those lazy programmers.

Perhaps I should clarify: Games that are also being developed simultaneously for multiple consoles are also noticeably poorer on the PS3.
actually, most of these are still developed with 360 as primary platform. the only two i know that are developed with engines in parallel are gta iv and one of the upcoming unreal games. i would be glad to go over comparison of these across the two platforms once they come out.
So sony are great for making their console hard to program for, while their competition have made their platforms easier. It's not their fault their console's in third place, it's the fault of those lazy programmers.
yes, and intel are complete idiots for having a floating point unit on their cpu. sure, that increases the performance dramatically, but what? two math units? i are confuseded. and then they added mmx extensions. what idiot came up with that? and 64 bit architecture woah!

truth is, hardware that performs better is more complex. complex hardware is more difficult to code for. if you cannot handle the heat, get the hell out of game development, and find a more suitable career.

ps3's architecture is a natural extension of the hardware evolution. it is the same direction, it just happened to be a little further ahead. it really doesn't have anything that an x386 with fpu co-processor didn't have. it just has it all a little more integrated. the fpus now have their own controllers. the dma controllers are also integrated onto the same chip. it is faster, it is more efficient, and yes, you have to read a few hundred pages of text before you can push it to the limit. oh, the horror.

stuff
I'm sure being really complicated is a great advantage for the intel whatever, but the PS3 is a games console. Making it harder to program doesn't make it better than it's competition. Ease of development is an important factor in development time and costs. Currently the PS3 is the most expensive console to devolp for, with the smallest install base. This is why there are very few exclusive PS3 titles coming out this year.

I just worry that by the time people actually start taking advantage ot the PS3 power, Microsoft will just release a new Xbox that will out-perform it. :p

Well how about the fact that the PS3 has a piddling library of games? I have a PS3 and so far I've bought a grand total of three games for it - Lemmings, Super Stardust HD, and Heavenly Sword.

Can I suggest you branch out with your choices a bit and stop, like, buying all the **** ones?

I'm going to assume you hate racing games (i did too) but I have to recommend you at least TRY Motorstorm. Once you've gotten used to motion sensing it becomes the greatest experience ever released :eek:
And resistance is actually pretty good, if you can bear FPSs


Also: I only have 2 games for PS3 (guess which :p) but they have lasted me since launch day and Im still far from bored with either. Motorstorm never gets old and Resistance has a great online and 'Extra Hard' mode to keep going back to :D Its all about quality over quantity :cool::p

point goes to splinter. though, i have never touched the new stuff. quake2 is where it is at.

I see, that'll be a 'yes' to the GreyHelium thing then :rolleyes:

I'm sure being really complicated is a great advantage for the intel whatever, but the PS3 is a games console. Making it harder to program doesn't make it better than it's competition. Ease of development is an important factor in development time and costs. Currently the PS3 is the most expensive console to devolp for, with the smallest install base. This is why there are very few exclusive PS3 titles coming out this year.
well, crap. nes really is the best console ever, then. why bother buying anything else? i can almost guarantee that you will not find something easier to develop for. and congrats on missing the whole point on complexity vs power.

well, crap. nes really is the best console ever, then. why bother buying anything else? i can almost guarantee that you will not find something easier to develop for. and congrats on missing the whole point on complexity vs power.

i loved 'battle of olympus' for the NES/ gameboy i wish i met someone who knew that game aswell one day, i want to complete it before i die! oh and thanks for the advice guys and squirminator! Still i am absolutely no further in knowing what console to get, but the advice was and is helpful, thanks.

well let me agree with Squirminator2k....

talking about the ps3 frame issues, that is very true, seeing as GTA IV has not been released yet, because ps3 is holding it back because of these issues, rockstar neither confirms this, or denies this, which makes it pretty obvious, plus the fact, that the 360 version is complete, and was due for release this month on the 17th.... which has come and gone...

Damn ps3 is holding it back, and it may delay until april.... but bad rumours are suggesting a CHRISTMAS release next year..... if this happens i will GO INSANE!!! All consoles have their issues, but money wise, quality wise, blah blah blah, the Xbox 360 , seems for now, to be the best buy for sure...

But in honest opinion, nothing ever beat the old consoles, especially when it came to heating issues.... never saw a nes overheat... he he (JOKE) just the power supply adaptor...

talking about the ps3 frame issues, that is very true, seeing as GTA IV has not been released yet, because ps3 is holding it back because of these issues, rockstar neither confirms this, or denies this, which makes it pretty obvious, plus the fact, that the 360 version is complete, and was due for release this month on the 17th.... which has come and gone...
*sigh* another one. how about actually looking for the information on the problems instead of jumping to idiotic conclusions? r* is keeping very quiet about the delay or any technical issues. but there was one interview in which dan houser mentions development issues.
Q: On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard drive and, with Blu-Ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on XBox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitaions.
A: Yep.
that's really where i should stop, but just to keep it in perspective, here is the rest of the answer.
To be honest with you we haven't solved all those riddles yet. Both of them have enormous challenges. [...] There are problems on both. We'll get there with both, but both have their own particular pleasures and pains.
the only thing we know for sure is that prior to delay announcement dan houser admits to having problems with the 360, particularly with lack of hdd and limitations of dvd9. he then adds that there are issues with ps3 as well (as he puts it, to be honest), but doesn't go into the details. i repeat, this is the only official bit of information available.

now, try to find me one damn thing that says that ps3 caused the delay. idiot analysts that don't know their ass from their elbow don't count.

now, try to find me one damn thing that says that ps3 caused the delay. idiot analysts that don't know their ass from their elbow don't count.
What about those that do know their ass from their elbow, but do not know their elbow from their ass... do they count?

well here is some proof, dude.

There is NOT EVEN ONE... picture or video of the ps3 version of GTA IV...
That says it all... and its got nothing to do with the xbox version. ITS COMPLETE.

Check out Gtagaming.com they are in close relation with rockstar. And get the most reliable info first, plus they check all intel with rockstar, before making a statement.

I been researching xbox and gta for years, so i think i got quite a good idea.
Plus dan houser has not made a statement for months...

quote... :

the only thing we know for sure is that prior to delay announcement dan houser admits to having problems with the 360, particularly with lack of hdd and limitations of dvd9.

now tell me how many months ago was this statement made.... EXACTLY. They sorted the hdd issues, and it was ready for release, but who is holding it back... well ps3 is. THAT we do know for sure.

Another so called issue, they are working on, is that xbox will have exclusive downloadable content, that the ps3 wont... so rumours are, they are trying to get these exclusive downloads to be available ALSO for ps3... but its just rumours... but has alot of truth...

What about those that do know their ass from their elbow, but do not know their elbow from their ass... do they count?
no. if that was the case, they'd know that they have an ass, and two of something that may be an ass or an elbow. in that case, if they do not conclude that these are elbows, they are incapable of counting, and their opinion, therefore, makes no difference.

@hackerman, you are basing the fact that 360 version is complete on trailers? wow. that is just... wow. but ok, lets go with that. if you look carefully, you can actually see buildings disappear/appear on trailers. yes, on the 360. yes, on the footage that r* managed to select. if they cannot find some footage where it does not happen, how bad do you think it really is. and why? no cache on the hard drive, which is exactly the issue that dan houser was speaking of. and that quote is from, oh, somewhere right before the second trailer release. not long before everything went quiet.

now, the fact that they used that version tells me that there is something else going on with ps3. what it is, is hard to tell. for all we know, they were simply still polishing hdr that they wanted to show off in trailers. the world may never know. but there is not a thing to suggest that whatever it was would take longer to fix than streaming issues on 360.

yeah, a lot of it is speculation, and sadly the POP UP issues, will probably never get fixed properly...

I dont recall seeing pop up AT ALL during the trailers, so im a little confused, and i have watched them frame by frame, quite a few times...

I dont really just base my reasons on the trailers at all, more so on the companies that recieved special demos of the working game, namely what i spoke about a while ago... And the only thing they had to say, that was a bit worrying was the frame rate issue.

Yes as far as we know, 360 version will probably require a hdd, but most 360's come standard with one.... (not the core, at least pro or premium)
So of course none of us are 100% certain, rockstar is keeping us in suspense.
But at the end of the day, i just hope it gets released ASAP. I was so ready to buy it on the 17th of this month, i even pre ordered the game. But then the dreaded "DELAY" happened. So im pretty certain the 360 is complete.
But i do agree, they probably are Polishing up the HD.

Just remember the trailers, are not showing the final product, alot of textures, were a bit bland, but in the other trailer, seeing the equivalent textures, they looked a lot better. So until it comes out, we wont really know for sure...

But i trully dont remember seeing POP ups in the trailer... Honestly... I would have noticed im sure, cause it's one of gta's issues, i have always hated.
But we will see...

i loved 'battle of olympus' for the NES/ gameboy i wish i met someone who knew that game aswell one day, i want to complete it before i die! oh and thanks for the advice guys and squirminator! Still i am absolutely no further in knowing what console to get, but the advice was and is helpful, thanks.
You might still have a chance, thanks to the Wii. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_virtual_console)
It hasn't come out on the VC yet though, but I'm pretty sure that it will.

well, crap. nes really is the best console ever, then. why bother buying anything else? i can almost guarantee that you will not find something easier to develop for. and congrats on missing the whole point on complexity vs power.
Important factor doesn't mean 'The only factor', quake.

I feel I should point out the Gameboy and the wii as examples of vastly inferior consoles that have outsold the competition, although that's got more to do with price than ease of development.

To put it simply, there is no reall difference between PS3 games and 360 games at the moment. They look the same. They play the same. One is easier to develop for and has a larger market share. Which one do you develop for?

You might still have a chance, thanks to the Wii. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_virtual_console)
It hasn't come out on the VC yet though, but I'm pretty sure that it will.

huh, thats nice, however i do actually still have 'battle of olympus' gameboy cartridge that i can play on my gamecube gameboy player :) plus i have other GC games to start/ finish so theres life left in it yet?

Do you know battle of olympus? i really need to talk to someone who does, the game is ROCK hard but so quality, there are Gods in the game that you can talk to who give you codes but they don't seem to do anything, i thought they might be restart codes but they don't work.:(

I've heard of it, but I've never played it. I never knew it came out for the gameboy though...
I'll buy it when it comes out on the VC though. It should be worth picking up.

I've heard of it, but I've never played it. I never knew it came out for the gameboy though...
I'll buy it when it comes out on the VC though. It should be worth picking up.

yeah everyone always overlooks the gameboy version, but i think it looks better, please do pick it up and see what you think.

To put it simply, there is no reall difference between PS3 games and 360 games at the moment. They look the same. They play the same. One is easier to develop for and has a larger market share. Which one do you develop for?
non sequitur.

look, yes, at the moment the games on ps3 are not too different from games on 360. that is because ps3 is a different machine, and no developer has yet used ps3 to full potential. it doesn't mean that you cannot make a better game on ps3. it just means nobody has yet made one. again, look at the tech demos to see what's there.

now, you are asking which to develop for. if all you want to do is throw something onto the market and make some quick buck, by all means, make games for 360. that is exactly what it was built for. making quick money off quickly knocked together games. ps3, on the other hand, is there if you want to make a game to really create something new. to leave a mark in the gaming history.

consider the games of the past that have defined what games are today. games like pong, prince of persia, doom. games that are not necessarily great by today's standards, but the kinds of games that really pushed gaming along. well, when you will look back onto games of this time, you will not see any 360 titles among such games. odds are, that neither will you see ps3 titles, but in the 360 case it is a certainty. 360 is there for high budget money makers. these aren't the games that you'll remember 20 years from now.

non sequitur.

look, yes, at the moment the games on ps3 are not too different from games on 360. that is because ps3 is a different machine, and no developer has yet used ps3 to full potential. it doesn't mean that you cannot make a better game on ps3. it just means nobody has yet made one. again, look at the tech demos to see what's there.

now, you are asking which to develop for. if all you want to do is throw something onto the market and make some quick buck, by all means, make games for 360. that is exactly what it was built for. making quick money off quickly knocked together games. ps3, on the other hand, is there if you want to make a game to really create something new. to leave a mark in the gaming history.

consider the games of the past that have defined what games are today. games like pong, prince of persia, doom. games that are not necessarily great by today's standards, but the kinds of games that really pushed gaming along. well, when you will look back onto games of this time, you will not see any 360 titles among such games. odds are, that neither will you see ps3 titles, but in the 360 case it is a certainty. 360 is there for high budget money makers. these aren't the games that you'll remember 20 years from now.
Well, no, but those games are rare, and often as not on are the PC anyway. But most companies don't aim to make that sort of game, so they'll just stick with what they know works.

Get them Wonderswans.

i love prince of persia

non sequitur.

look, yes, at the moment the games on ps3 are not too different from games on 360. that is because ps3 is a different machine, and no developer has yet used ps3 to full potential. it doesn't mean that you cannot make a better game on ps3. it just means nobody has yet made one. again, look at the tech demos to see what's there.

now, you are asking which to develop for. if all you want to do is throw something onto the market and make some quick buck, by all means, make games for 360. that is exactly what it was built for. making quick money off quickly knocked together games. ps3, on the other hand, is there if you want to make a game to really create something new. to leave a mark in the gaming history.

consider the games of the past that have defined what games are today. games like pong, prince of persia, doom. games that are not necessarily great by today's standards, but the kinds of games that really pushed gaming along. well, when you will look back onto games of this time, you will not see any 360 titles among such games. odds are, that neither will you see ps3 titles, but in the 360 case it is a certainty. 360 is there for high budget money makers. these aren't the games that you'll remember 20 years from now.
I'm sorry, I must have missed the announcement that innovation is now owned by sony.

Sure, the 360 hasn't produced any really revoloutionary games, but niether has the PS3.

The PS3 doesn't have more potential than the 360. All them extra polygons, shaders and megahurtz are going to go into making really nice looking FPS and racing games.

Sure, the 360 hasn't produced any really revoloutionary games, but niether has the PS3.

LittleBigPlanet

Or maybe Im mis-understanding 'revolutionary'?

Sure, the 360 hasn't produced any really revoloutionary games, but niether has the PS3.
that has nothing to do with the argument. 360 will not produce revolutionary games, because that is not what it was built for. ps3 will probably not produce any revolutionary games, because sony messed up on the marketing. but the system is right for it, so maybe we'll get lucky.
The PS3 doesn't have more potential than the 360. All them extra polygons, shaders and megahurtz are going to go into making really nice looking FPS and racing games.
omg teh jigahurtz!!!!!

are you done now?

now, lets talk about the systems, how they are built, and why they are built that way. 360 runs 3 conventional cores in parallel. each core is the same ppc architecture that any mac programmer is going to be familiar with. the only odd thing about it is that there are 3 cores. the useful thing about it is running tasks in parallel, but if you try writing a serious game, all 3 will end up running physics most of the time, and ai almost all of the rest. you could, potentially, dedicate two cores to physics, and one two ai and other tasks, allowing you to get pretty good results. the graphics are taken care of almost entirely on gpu. this is a machine built to do computations needed for conventional gaming as quickly as possible, allowing to make conventional games with better graphics than before. trying to turn quantity into quality, and nothing new.

ps3, on the other hand, runs two ppc cores at roughly the same speed as the 360's cores. in that sense, difference is minimal. however, it also has 7 additional cores (spu) that are designed to do vector computations. each of these cores has its own local store with its own memory flow controller, allowing them to perform high number of floating point or integer computations on streams of data. the logic on these is a bit slower, but each of these 7 cores is still a fully functioning general processor. each is capable, in theory, of running its own os.

another thing to keep in mind is that ppc can grant access to any part of ram, including video ram, to these spus. so what does that give you? first, you have a unit that is equally well equipped to help the cpu perform its common tasks, such as physics simulations or ai, or help the gpu, by running any kind of shader algorithm just as efficiently. furthermore, the ability to work with streams creates a whole new set of possibilities. you can have audio simulation that you simply couldn't spare cycles for before. you can run liquid simulations. you can run ray tracing algorithms. you can run fourier transforms to do some interesting visual effects.

in addition, the ppc can change the program on individual spu at any time, switching it from one task to another as needed as many times as necessary, and each spu has methods of reporting to ppc that it has completed its current task. this allows you to do entirely new things, kind of things that you'd previously need dedicated hardware for, while at no time distracting the cpu from whatever it is that it needs to do.

so, the summary. 360 is built to do the same thing that computers did since introduction of 3dfx chips, only faster, and with choice of using shaders instead of the fixed pipe. that gives you games that follow the same principles, and simply run more polygons and do some nifty light effects. ps3 does all of these things about as well. in fact, its gpu is a bit weaker at certain things. however, ps3 is flexible enough to do things that 360 is too specialized to handle. granted, nobody actually uses these things in games yet, but these options are available, allowing for creation of games that could not be created before.

I still say Xbox is my choice...

Here's something funny, in South Africa our currency is the rand...
Well right now its roughly 7 Rands to the dollar...

The ps3 sells for 6500 rands, but this morning that price dropped to 4500 rands... hehe... wanna know why...

Well in South Africa for every Ps3 that is sold... Xbox 360 sells 10!!!
So now old ps3 is trying to be competitive, but has failed miserably.
So in SA Xbox is leading the way...

omg teh spu corez!!!!!
I get the point that you're trying to make, that the PS3 can potentially do things that the Xbox is capable of, therefore it can produce more revoloutionary games. In theory.

Your point is, however, completely divorced from reality. The idea that games need all this extra power to be new and exciting is completely false. All you're going to end up with is more complex games. I honestly belive that when this console generation ends you'll find more new and interesting concepts in the Xbox live arcade than you'll find on any of the three consoles.

I doubt we'll ever see any games as revoloutionary as the dooms, Princes, tetrises or Mario 64s of the past. The games industry has moved on, incremental improvement is the order of the day. There won't be any new genres, only subgenres. We'll never have the jump from 2D to 3D again.

All the multiple linked Gpus in the world won't give us games in 4 dimensons.

I honestly belive that when this console generation ends you'll find more new and interesting concepts in the Xbox live arcade than you'll find on any of the three consoles.

Has live arcade come up with anything remotely interesting yet other than remakes?

Also, didnt flow come from PS edi? And calling all cars (an excellant multiplayer game, maybe not revolutionary but (Y) nonetheless)? etc?

[/vague]

Your point is, however, completely divorced from reality.
not power. flexibility. and it isn't so much that you need it as the fact that when you are working with something new, you tend to invent something new.

and i'm not saying that we will see anything new and different on ps3. i'm only saying that if i want to make something new and different, ps3 is my choice to work on. if i want to knock something together to make a quick buck, 360 is my first choice. that might have nothing to do with what platform you should chose as a customer, but it certainly tells me which platform is of more interest to someone who's interest in games goes beyond using them to waste time.
All the multiple linked Gpus in the world won't give us games in 4 dimensons.
you don't even need a lot of hardware. rendering in 4d is very easy. you can do it on a regular gpu if you introduce an intermediate step where you project your geometry from 4d to 3d. of course, that means that you will implement the transform matrix stack on the cpu, which will use up some cpu cycles, but filling the buffers, depth testing, texturing, filtering, and all the other expensive steps, still stay on the gpu. so it really isn't so bad.

the problem, of course, is coming up with games that are interesting in 4d and can be understood without a degree in mathematics. the only interesting game i've seen that runs in 4d is a 4d rubic's cube.

Well in South Africa for every Ps3 that is sold... Xbox 360 sells 10!!!
So now old ps3 is trying to be competitive, but has failed miserably.
So in SA Xbox is leading the way...
Replace SA with 'planet Earth' and that sentence would still be true.

Has live arcade come up with anything remotely interesting yet other than remakes?
From what I've heard, Space Giraffe is supposed to be brilliant.

Also, didnt flow come from PS edi?
It came from the internet first. The PS one is essentially a remake.

not power. flexibility. and it isn't so much that you need it as the fact that when you are working with something new, you tend to invent something new.
...what?
Look, we already know that the PS3 is harder to make games for than the other consoles. And it's hardly new at all, the only thing new for it is that it's more powerful! The Wii's the one that's new.

you don't even need a lot of hardware. rendering in 4d is very easy. you can do it on a regular gpu if you introduce an intermediate step where you project your geometry from 4d to 3d. of course, that means that you will implement the transform matrix stack on the cpu, which will use up some cpu cycles, but filling the buffers, depth testing, texturing, filtering, and all the other expensive steps, still stay on the gpu. so it really isn't so bad.
the problem, of course, is coming up with games that are interesting in 4d and can be understood without a degree in mathematics. the only interesting game i've seen that runs in 4d is a 4d rubic's cube.
Which extra dimension are you talking about there?

Look, we already know that the PS3 is harder to make games for than the other consoles.
have you tried? personally, i still haven't gotten to it, but i have read the manual on cbe. controlling the spus isn't much different than controlling the sound blaster. anybody who ever coded for both dos and windows will not have any trouble with ps3. people who have done nothing but directx code might, but these people shouldn't be working on any serious titles in the first place.
Which extra dimension are you talking about there?
doesn't matter. it's a mathematical concept. you take 4d objects defined by linked vertecies and project these onto a 2d screen. what you want to interpret that 4th dimension as in the game depends only on the gameplay.

but these people shouldn't be working on any serious titles in the first place.
Doesn't stop them making lots of money, mind.

I still highly doubt anything brand new gameplay wise will happen from the consoles, the people/teams/companies which would do something new are usually the sort who make PC games.

have you tried? personally, i still haven't gotten to it, but i have read the manual on cbe. controlling the spus isn't much different than controlling the sound blaster. anybody who ever coded for both dos and windows will not have any trouble with ps3. people who have done nothing but directx code might, but these people shouldn't be working on any serious titles in the first place.
..I'm gonna go with the opinions of people who have tried...

doesn't matter. it's a mathematical concept. you take 4d objects defined by linked vertecies and project these onto a 2d screen. what you want to interpret that 4th dimension as in the game depends only on the gameplay.
Can you name at least one dimension? Because I'm under the impression that you're just making this up as you go along.

Can you name at least one dimension? Because I'm under the impression that you're just making this up as you go along.

its a mathematical concept
Duhh......

It's quite easy to conceive of a system with four or more dimensions.

What flavour do I want my ice-cream to be?
One scoop, two scoops, three scoops?
Flake or no flake?
What type of sauce, if any?
What type of sprinkles, if any?

Even if we restrict ourselve to boring, non-mathematician's answers, there are many ways to conceive a fourth dimension. Colour, for example. Or contour planes (in the same way that contour lines depict a third dimension in 2D). Or flow arrows, which takes you straight into 6D (or 4D, if your flow diagram is 2D).

but what about the operating systems, something people have overlooked. Sonys OS on psp is sublime and on ps3 its even better and on xbox you have i dunno.....:confused: wait xbox is owned by microsoft, it doesn't have windows does it!???:eek: if so i'm definetly not getting xbox360 lol.

Can you name at least one dimension? Because I'm under the impression that you're just making this up as you go along.
name? dimension? i can give you some definitions from set theory, but if you cannot picture a 4d space, i cannot help you much. well, you can try looking for animations of hypercubes online. even if it doesn't help you, at least they look cool.

but we have plenty of situations in physics when we have to deal with extra dimensions. various state diagrams in thermodynamics sometimes have to be multi-dimensional. you have your space-time from general relativity that is a 4d manifold with minkowski metric. quantum mechanics is full of multi-dimensional systems. hilbert space tends to have very many dimensions, and often is infinitely-dimensional.
wait xbox is owned by microsoft, it doesn't have windows does it!???well, original xbox ran a stripped down version of windows kernel. i'm not sure about 360, but it probably is something similar. it definitely runs on directx, though, and i never liked any of dx libraries. some of them really are easy to use, but you tend to lose on performance in a lot of cases.
Or flow arrows, which takes you straight into 6D (or 4D, if your flow diagram is 2D).
so you want to represent a 3d vector field with a 3d volume embedded in a 6d space? why? the thing still has only 3 degrees of freedom at any point, so putting it into a 6-space is an overkill. the statement is not wrong, or anything, but seriously, why?

ps3 will stick in my mind for ever and ever....................................... even though i might opt for a wii. but never a 360. eee-yyyeewww!

Wait, can I ask? Why are some people so insistant on never getting an Xbox?

I love XBOX 360... anyone who doesnt is simply PRO PS3... thats all.
some people are 50/50.

Wait, can I ask? Why are some people so insistant on never getting an Xbox?
you mean people who don't want an xbox just because it is xbox? i don't get it either. it's a good machine if you just want to play mainstream games.

this solves the problem... BUY A NES or a GB DS. At least we know they work fine, games work fine... blah blah blah

so you want to represent a 3d vector field with a 3d volume embedded in a 6d space? why? the thing still has only 3 degrees of freedom at any point, so putting it into a 6-space is an overkill. the statement is not wrong, or anything, but seriously, why?I dunno. Imagine being able to twiddle the little arrows as well.

wii
-end of discussion-

I dunno. Imagine being able to twiddle the little arrows as well.
i do. each arrow has 3 degrees of freedom. and if you want to combine the spacial degrees of freedom with these of your vectors, then i insist on each vector giving you 3 degrees of freedom, for a total of infinite number of degrees of freedom.

that shouldn't be a shock, either. if you have never had to use a function to represent an infinite-dimensional vector, you must have been asleep during your quantum lectures.

wii
-end of discussion-

No! No! No! Wii-Ass Three!

No! No! No! Wii-Ass Three!
Was... was that supposed to mean something?

Pee Ass Three?

P... S.... 3!!!

I think, it's a combination and/or word play of Wii and PS3.
You see, you have PS3(Pee-Ess-Three), And Wii. Pee=Wee, Wee closely resembles Wii, so you get Wii-Ess-Three. Dunno what the Ass is for.

But yeah, overall it's a horrible word play.

Ess = Ass. Duh. IT RHYMES.

i think based on the number of votes, this poll served its purpose.

Ess = Ass. Duh. IT RHYMES.How on earth do you pronounce them?

pronounce ass.

or pronounce PS3. its the same for god's sake.

the closed 'a' and closed 'e' sounds are actually different. they sound very similar to a lot of people whose native language is not english, but even if you cannot hear the difference at all, you should learn how to pronounce the difference. compare 'tan' vs 'ten'. same goes for open 'e' and closed 'i'. if you don't pronounce them differently, native speakers might have hard time understanding you.

i said they RHYME.

i said they RHYME.
Nope, doesn't rhyme either.

both ends with da "S" sound. why dont? you can put both words in poems.

When you want to rhyme,
Almost everytime,
The only catch,
is the words must match,
If the words aren't right,
use all your might,
But if it dont sound true,
Then rhyming wont do...

:)

can't stand attempts to rhyme lines without keeping a consistent meter. adding a rhyme, espetially in aabb scheme, to something with no meter makes it sound like it was written by a five year old.

both ends with da "S" sound.
That's not enough to make something rhyme. Not enough at all.
Just like 'sulpher' and 'snake' don't rhyme.

you can put both words in poems.
You can put any word in a poem! Nowadays poems don't have to rhyme anymore.

Just like 'sulpher' and 'snake' don't rhyme.

They don't end in an "S" sound either.

DOH!

You can put any word in a poem! Nowadays poems don't have to rhyme anymore.
even classical poems don't have to rhyme. but they have to have a meter! gah!

They don't end in an "S" sound either.
Oh wow! You're a real hero, Captain Obvious!

Oh wow! You're a real hero, Captain Obvious!
Much better than you, Captain Suck at Examples.

both ends with da "S" sound.
That's not enough to make something rhyme. Not enough at all.
Just like 'sulpher' and 'snake' don't rhyme.
They don't end in an "S" sound either.
Oh wow! You're a real hero, Captain Obvious!
I don't actually need to say anything else here.

i do. each arrow has 3 degrees of freedom. and if you want to combine the spacial degrees of freedom with these of your vectors, then i insist on each vector giving you 3 degrees of freedom, for a total of infinite number of degrees of freedom.

that shouldn't be a shock, either. if you have never had to use a function to represent an infinite-dimensional vector, you must have been asleep during your quantum lectures.
I didn't do quantum. Well, I started to do it but then I got completely lost round about the "Hamiltonians, oh heck we did something like that in Vector Calculus but our VC lecturer was rubbish" point. Most of what I do understand comes from Feynman's QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter.

But, fair enough, I'll concede defeat here.

vector calculus is the easy part. but really, to understand quantum qualitatively you just need to understand linear algebra well. now, if you want to get numeric answers for real problems, then you need to know how to approximate solutions to differential equations that you cannot solve exaclty.

i love it when you talk scientific quakerworm! :o RESPECT! :o

hmmmmmm... i wish to end the debate on rhymes, poems and their meters.

and i also wish to see the end of the debate/discussion of quantum and anything else scientific and not related to the main topic of this thread, which really isnt anything about science.

or maybe just a lil bit about science.

vector calculus is the easy part. but really, to understand quantum qualitatively you just need to understand linear algebra well. now, if you want to get numeric answers for real problems, then you need to know how to approximate solutions to differential equations that you cannot solve exaclty.

Oh, yes, that reminds me: our Linear Algebra lecturer was a bit rubbish and all, for similar reasons. Both spoke heavily accented English and had terrible handwriting.

Yes, I should have caught up with it all in the supervisions - and I did, eventually. About a year later.

can you do eigan value problems? if so, you can already do some very basic qm problems. the fundamental equation for qm, in time independent form, is just an eigan value equation: H*psy = E*psy, where psy is a vector, H is the hamiltonian operator (can typically be represented as a matrix, but it might need infinite number of rows and columns) and E is the energy eigan value. if H can be diagonalized it is very straight forward. things get interesting when you cannot get the hamiltonian to a diagonal form.

Ooh, it's been a while since I did eigenvalues. That was one of the things that I should have worked out in the first year but only really cracked in the second.

Hang on, let me check Riley, Hobson and Bence.