If I want to power 4, 3-pin fans to 4-pin connectors do I simply connect the right wires together then jumper the green to the black wire in the connector to fake a MB?

Absolutely

like so:
http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=howtodoityl2.png
?

Yeah go ahead man! You do that!

http://cocos.beeksma.nl/beeksma/data/images/stories/Burning_computer.jpg

errr was that a serious helpful comment or will this be a huge fire hazard?

Don't mess with wires is your pc man, just don't, they're covered for a reason!

Well I won't be the one doing it but the person who does says he knows how to connect wires but doesn't know which ones.

Ghost;601501']Well I won't be the one doing it but the person who does says he knows how to connect wires but doesn't know which ones.

If you don't know what you're doing: STAY OFF!

would you direct me in the right direction then on how to find out this information or who to ask that knows about wires and PSUs and safety.

Nope, I'm sorry! I'll leave the thread for other more experienced users now.

Bye!

I would argue that there's nothing wrong at all with messing with the wires of your computer. As long as you don't do something stupid like leave the computer on at the time. Worst you do is burn your fan or power supply unit, really. Unless you try to solder something to the motherboard in which case you're a moron.

Now, you mention 3-pin fans, but from the diagram each fan looks to have only 2 wires coming from it. So what are all the wire colours on the 3-pin fans?


edit: I actually once tried to resolder a broken capacitor onto a motherboard, but I couldn't really do it and never bothered turning it on. It was a board I found by the street anyways, so no big loss.

Ghost;601456']If I want to power 4, 3-pin fans to 4-pin connectors do I simply connect the right wires together then jumper the green to the black wire in the connector to fake a MB?

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW.
Any AC power linked up to the wrong thing (no, you cannot mix 3pin with 4pin, the guy who says he can is speaking absolute bullhonkey.) will DEFINITELY become/do this

a) An electrocution hazard
b) A BIIIG fire hazard
c) Melt all the fuses in the fusebox and make the bill massive
d) FRY everything inside the casing connected to the motherboard
e) Kill somebody.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REWIRE STUFF. It's about as sensible as walking up to a nuclear bomb and whacking the warhead with a shovel to try and disarm it.

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW.
Any AC power linked up to the wrong thing (no, you cannot mix 3pin with 4pin, the guy who says he can is speaking absolute bullhonkey.) will DEFINITELY become/do this

a) An electrocution hazard
b) A BIIIG fire hazard
c) Melt all the fuses in the fusebox and make the bill massive
d) FRY everything inside the casing connected to the motherboard
e) Kill somebody.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REWIRE STUFF. It's about as sensible as walking up to a nuclear bomb and whacking the warhead with a shovel to try and disarm it.

Too late, I just heard a big boom.

:(

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW.
Any AC power linked up to the wrong thing (no, you cannot mix 3pin with 4pin, the guy who says he can is speaking absolute bullhonkey.) will DEFINITELY become/do this

a) An electrocution hazard
b) A BIIIG fire hazard
c) Melt all the fuses in the fusebox and make the bill massive
d) FRY everything inside the casing connected to the motherboard
e) Kill somebody.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REWIRE STUFF. It's about as sensible as walking up to a nuclear bomb and whacking the warhead with a shovel to try and disarm it.

Like I said, just back away from the fans with your hand where I can see them!

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW.
Any AC power linked up to the wrong thing (no, you cannot mix 3pin with 4pin, the guy who says he can is speaking absolute bullhonkey.) will DEFINITELY become/do this

a) An electrocution hazard
b) A BIIIG fire hazard
c) Melt all the fuses in the fusebox and make the bill massive
d) FRY everything inside the casing connected to the motherboard
e) Kill somebody.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REWIRE STUFF. It's about as sensible as walking up to a nuclear bomb and whacking the warhead with a shovel to try and disarm it.

STOP POSTING RIGHT NOW.
I think YOU are speaking absolute "bullhonkey". What experience do you think you have in electronics or wiring?

The purpose of the power supply is to lower the wall voltage, be it 110 or 220vac depending on your location. Any wire you deal with won't be above 12v or so if you're dealing with the connectors out of the power supply. This is neither enough to start a fire unless you left the gas stove on all last night nor nearly enough to electrocute you.

Any decent PSU these days should have a form of short circuit protection, so that if you short something, it won't fry anything. If it does fry something for some reason, it'll be the PSU. I fried the PSU in my last machine. The rest of the computer was fine. It did nothing to the circuit breakers. By the way, circuit breakers are far more common now than fuses.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO POST WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ON EARTH YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. It's about as sensible as telling a walrus that 1+1=27


I just looked on a spare PSU I had sitting about. It says that red is +5v and yellow is +12v. Do you know what the voltage requirements of the fan are? You might need to use red and black instead of yellow and black? I guess the worst that happens if you don't know is to try red and if the fan doesn't spin fast enough try the yellow.

Someperson please shut up! Do you WANT him to blow his tower?

thanks for the help, the fan is 12v and i would like them running at 12v, when I test it to see if it's working i'll do the 5v wire anyway. The reason there are 3 pins is that one regulates the speed, it uses the MB and changes speed by the MBs control. So that wire is useless without a MB. The pictures shows the wire colors on the fans.

Also no one said this will be inside a computer did they?

STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW.
Any AC power linked up to the wrong thing (no, you cannot mix 3pin with 4pin, the guy who says he can is speaking absolute bullhonkey.) will DEFINITELY become/do this

a) An electrocution hazard
b) A BIIIG fire hazard
c) Melt all the fuses in the fusebox and make the bill massive
d) FRY everything inside the casing connected to the motherboard
e) Kill somebody.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REWIRE STUFF. It's about as sensible as walking up to a nuclear bomb and whacking the warhead with a shovel to try and disarm it.
What the hell?

It's perfectly fine to rewire stuff, just so long as you know what you're doing (ish). And if you don't, well, we invented fuses and circuit breakers for good reason. They've saved my life more than once :P, they work very well. Besides, it's all DC inside the box, and generally AC is safer anyway, you leap back rather than clench it. You've got to learn somehow, and experience is one of the best, imo.

Although I have learnt the stupid way to never fiddle with wires when the computer is on, I blew a good hard disc up like that. But if you think through what you're doing and fiddle when the power is off at the wall (but still plugged in, to remain earthed) then you're pretty safe.

You can mix 3 pin connectors with 4 pin. I've done it. The three pin fans have two wires for the power to the fan, and a third which controls the speed of the fan, if I remember correctly. Although I don't remember any green wires, the fan I've got in front of me has only red yellow and black.

edit: I've been beaten too it.

... well if it blows its his loss

the green wire is in the MB connection. Since I'm not actually using it with a computer I need to put the two wires together. same principle as the paper clip trick for the PSU.

Have you got a simple 12V and 5V power supply sitting around? You could try fiddling with the fan and that before plugging it in anywhere.

... well if it blows its his loss

Are you the sort of person who buys a new object if the old one stops working for one moment, rather than taking the cover off, to try and fix it, by any chance?

not that i could find.

Hmm, how about an old computer power supply? Model Railway controller? Scalextrics transformer?

Just that way you can play around to your heart's content to make sure you've got the right wires, before plugging it in.

I do i'm going to try it out with my dad tonight. 1 Old PSU and 1 Old Working 12v Fan.

I also have a railway controller but I'm gonna keep it in working condition in the box with my old train set.

Someperson please shut up! Do you WANT him to blow his tower?
No, but I really doubt he will. What I really want though is for you to stop acting like you know everything.


I actually just found a 2 wire fan that goes to a 4 pin plug, and I took a picture of it. Yeah, it looks that the fan should indeed go to yellow and black. http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5025/img2907ro0.jpg

Although we knew that as soon as you said 12v.


I'm not entirely sure what you should do with the 3rd control wire. I don't know what voltage the motherboard gives it. One way to know for sure would be to take apart a computer, turn it on, and then test the fan connection with a voltmeter. At the same time adapters like this (http://www.directron.com/3to4adapter.html) make me wonder if the third wire is even necessary. It might be the kind of thing where if it's not connected it goes full speed, and the motherboard connection only slows it. But I'm not going to "pull a cisken" and claim to know something I don't, so we'll see if someone more knowledgeable than I can tell you something...


What's this for anyhow?

you shouldnt work on your computer because my granma sendt this email around saying that if u do stuff to yuor computer it lets out the computer goblins and it makes your computer not work. dont tough the compueter!! hands off bbabay haha just kidding though dont touch it itll make your house suspolode

listen i may not be a math man or an electeronics man but i do know computer goblins and you do NOT want those puppies excaping!!!!

Someperson please shut up! Do you WANT him to blow his tower?
What's with you? Nothing that is connected to a 12v 4pin connector is going to blow up. The worst thing that can happen is that you ruin a connector and/or the wires.

But if you want to test it without risking your computer, you can take a <12v AC adapter that you cut the wires on and connect to the 4pin. I've got a 9v 100 milliamp AC adapter that I connect to computer fans and other 4pin powered mod stuff.

Well i'll ask around and see but i think if it isn't connected it will run at 12v

you shouldnt work on your computer because my granma sendt this email around saying that if u do stuff to yuor computer it lets out the computer goblins and it makes your computer not work. dont tough the compueter!! hands off bbabay haha just kidding though dont touch it itll make your house suspolode

listen i may not be a math man or an electeronics man but i do know computer goblins and you do NOT want those puppies excaping!!!!
forward this post to 10 members or u will be cursed w/ bad luck in relationships for 10 years

just in case my dad is a moron anyone want to point me in the direction of how to connect the wires?

Here's how I've always connected up fans to random supplys:

Get some old wires, and some wire strippers. Strip the ends of the wires back a few centimetres, then twist them, so they won't all shred, as it were. Then bend the bare twisted bits back on themselves, so the form a sort of springy bit, which you can easily shove into the metal cylinders inside the larger 4 pin connectors.

The smaller 3 pin connectors you should just be able to pop the stripped wires straight into.

If that's what you're asking?

Otherwise, just remember red = 5V, yellow= 12V, and black = neutral.

well that sounds good not that I understood most of it but my dad might when we do it tonight i'll post the result/support if needed :)

thanks MrBunsy

my dad won't do it...thinks i'll start a fire by connecting the wires from the 4 pin to the fan. Hes a way too cautious person.

Do it on a pan so that if by some miracle it gets hot it doesn't burn the tablecloth?

My dads thoughts don't reflect my own, i'm an explorer. I love looking at insides and learning how things work. Is there any place thats popular in electronics that would garuntee thats is safe thus allowing my dad to do it, or would they say that it isn't a good idea and crush my wishes?

You can always do this (http://www.instructables.com/id/EZRQE2CLSLES9J6K2G/) to make what is essentially a 12v battery to test the fan and make sure it will work without the motherboard.

Or, actually, old phone chargers and such work pretty well for things like this if it's not for a computer... I use a 9v phone charger for all my electrolysis experiments. (I'm working on making a hydrogen combustion cannon) I also used the same phone charger to upgrade my electric bug zapper, and made it incredibly powerful. Sadly I couldn't find any flies close enough to the wall outlet... It was cool though, and would seriously make a huge arc and destroy any leaf you stuck in it.

Where can you do it that's safe? The kitchen. That's where I do everything. Or you can get a gasoline generator, plug your power supply into that, and then do it on a large concrete slab in the desert. That way if it shorts it can't light the house on fire or anything because none of the electricity goes through the walls, and if the PSU makes a hollywood type explosion it's on a concrete slab and does nothing. You're still dealing with gasoline in the generator, but I assume they design these things so that they can't ignite... But this is all ridiculous...

Where can you do it that's safe? The kitchen. That's where I do everything. Or you can get a gasoline generator, plug your power supply into that, and then do it on a large concrete slab in the desert. That way if it shorts it can't light the house on fire or anything because none of the electricity goes through the walls, and if the PSU makes a hollywood type explosion it's on a concrete slab and does nothing. You're still dealing with gasoline in the generator, but I assume they design these things so that they can't ignite... But this is all ridiculous...

In the kitchen is probably a bad idea. Lots of metal, lots of water...I'd say a garage would be a better idea.

By the way, your bug zapper sounds lethal. Watch your fingers.

My dads thoughts don't reflect my own, i'm an explorer. I love looking at insides and learning how things work. Is there any place thats popular in electronics that would garuntee thats is safe thus allowing my dad to do it, or would they say that it isn't a good idea and crush my wishes?All computer power supplies I've ever known trip themselves out if they get short circuited, so there's not much risk of fire by simple wire-crossing. You could give it a try to check that's the case for your PSU, and show him (best on one that's not in the PC though)? The only way I've ever set fire to a PSU before was by soldering extra power connectors to it, so I could run 6 hard discs, it ran for ages until one day a capacitor caught fire. Heh, back in the good ol' days with my Cyrix. Best not tell him that story though.

You can always do this (http://www.instructables.com/id/EZRQE2CLSLES9J6K2G/) to make what is essentially a 12v battery to test the fan and make sure it will work without the motherboard.
That's a nice little trick, I'm going to try and remember it!

Or, actually, old phone chargers and such work pretty well for things like this if it's not for a computer... I use a 9v phone charger for all my electrolysis experiments. (I'm working on making a hydrogen combustion cannon) I also used the same phone charger to upgrade my electric bug zapper, and made it incredibly powerful. Sadly I couldn't find any flies close enough to the wall outlet... It was cool though, and would seriously make a huge arc and destroy any leaf you stuck in it.
That sounds pretty nifty! Mind if I ask how you did the bug zapper thing though? I wouldn't have thought you could get an arc from a mere 9V.

All computer power supplies I've ever known trip themselves out if they get short circuited, so there's not much risk of fire by simple wire-crossing. You could give it a try to check that's the case for your PSU, and show him (best on one that's not in the PC though)? The only way I've ever set fire to a PSU before was by soldering extra power connectors to it, so I could run 6 hard discs, it ran for ages until one day a capacitor caught fire. Heh, back in the good ol' days with my Cyrix. Best not tell him that story though.


Good idea :) I'll try that.

Are you the sort of person who buys a new object if the old one stops working for one moment, rather than taking the cover off, to try and fix it, by any chance?

Yup, I'm the kind of person that doesn't get electrocuted.

Yup, I'm the kind of person that doesn't get electrocuted.
You said you were going to stop posting in this thread, so why are you still doing so? Everything you've posted has been clearly ignorant bull****, yet you can't seem to keep your finger off the Post Reply button. You contribute nothing - in fact, your posts detract from the thread itself. I don't get what drives you.

Yup, I'm the kind of person that doesn't get electrocuted.

How, well, dull of you. Not to mention expensive, considering how often computers stop working.

Actually my old PSU which I mentioned fried of old age. Or actually it was only a few years old, so I think it was just crappily made. It kind of made a sizzling sound, smelled bad, and then the computer shut off. No fire or anything. Everything else was unharmed. I think you're more at danger of causing fire from your PSU being cheap than from messing with the wiring...


That sounds pretty nifty! Mind if I ask how you did the bug zapper thing though? I wouldn't have thought you could get an arc from a mere 9V.

Well, the zapper has a transformer in it so the 2 D batteries at 3v are stepped up to 630v. I replace the batteries with 9v, and that 630v triples to nearly 2000 volts. It's not as tricky as I probably made it sound... I'm thinking of trying a 9v battery, but from my experience the current providing capabilities thereof are unimpressive... It's also not that the arc necessarily "jumps" to touch something, but when it something touches it you get the big blue spark.

How about upping the battery power to 12v like in the tutorial? Who knows what untold bug-death-ray you might get.

Ghost, your diagram is perfectly correct. All you need to do with the spare red and black wire is terminate them. Wrap some insulation tape around them. You'll notice that in its normal state, a Molex connector's terminals are unconnected.

You could take the easy route and buy a few (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=98965&doy=1m9) adaptors (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=37056&doy=1m9). This kind of adaptor (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=34544&doy=1m9) is the simplest way to do it, but you'll have two fans running at 12V and two running at 5V.

If you prefer to get down and dirty, then you should do what MrBunsy and SomePerson have suggested. If you want to do it a bit more neatly, take off the fans' connectors and strip insulation from their wires, leaving the copper cores exposed. Combine and twist together the two groups of colours so that you end up with one red wire and one black. Buy one of these (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=1317&doy=1m9) (order code JW65, female), put one of the included metal pins on each of the clumps of wire and insert them in to the female Molex connector in the positions opposite the correct colours of the male equivalent plug (yellow-red, black-black). All your four fans will then be connected to a 12V supply and will run at full speed. The extra yellow/green cable on each fan reports the RPM speed to the mobo when connected to it, but the fan will run independently. The advantage of this method is it doesn't involve modification of the power supply.

If you present information about the voltages of the coloured wires to your dad and use technical jargon like mobo, Molex, terminate and RPM he'll be more confident in you. There is nothing wrong with working on the kitchen sink unless you turn on the taps, in which case your stuff will get wet and you'll have to dry it out. Kitchen sinks, like radiators, are grounded so any electrical current passing in to them will pass harmlessly to earth rather than in to you. Do not mix anti-static precautions with general electrical safety as none of the items discussed here are affected by static in the way your more component-laiden PCB items are. Electrical precautions in this case aren't necessary as the items you're working on are separate from any power supply, and it's very basic wiring. You should know by now that a computer power supply will turn itself off if it notices any problems. With this in mind, wiring inside a computer is easier and safer than wiring your own mains plugs, depending on whether you like reading instructions.

30526

I'd always recommend connecting fans to the mobo when possible as if one ever fails, you'll be made aware of it so you can sort out the problem before your case temperature builds up.

interesting nice post. I just need to find a place to buy that in Canada if my dad won't do the wires.

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchproducts.asp?categoryID=356 for the adaptors, though I can't find the connector. Sorry. Can any Canadians help?

EDIT: Kitchen sinks in the UK are grounded, I don't know about anywhere else. Australia, probably, as they're nicking our tradesmen right now. Also, try eBay CA.

http://216.139.228.207/Fan-Multi-Connector-Cable-ZM-MC1-P157C21.aspx

May be of use? That site has a canadian flag along with the american one at the top.

Even if you buy it from the US, it's still cheap.

Bear in mind that...
You can see from the above diagram that two outputs are provided at 12 volts, and two outputs at 5 volts. Therefore you can have up to two fans running at normal speed (black sockets), and/or up to two fans running at a lower speed (white sockets).
... which is not what Ghost wants. But thanks for the help.