Alright heres the deal. Forget trying to sell in stores with this one. Apple computer is definitely on the rise, and they're selling like hotcakes now more than ever (with the new release of the macbook and the entire intel-based line)

why not rerelease Worms Armageddon for Mac (i know this idea was in the works for awhile but fizzled) and sell it as a download for like 10 bucks on the team17 website? Its such a small file in comparison to today's games that it would be more than worth the cost to put it online as opposed to trying to sell it again in stores! I would LOVE to see this happen!! The Worms games are all cool, but Armageddon is arguably the best out of the entire line.

COME ON guys, how hard can it be? its an easy way to make a few extra bucks.

COME ON guys, how hard can it be?
Quite hard, considering that Team17 are only developers, not publishers.

For starters, Team17 have no experience coding on Macs - they have to wait to be approached by another publisher (like Feral Interactive in the case of Worms Blast and W3D, or Infogrames/Macsoft in the case of WA).

The only Mac game T17 have ever done in-house was Worms1, and I think they had assistance from Ocean then (who probably no longer exist).


Also, there would be problems with WA for Mac and the continuing development of WA for PC, with their Beta patches - Macs wouldn't be able to play against PC users unless the Mac version was being continuously patched as well, and I doubt Deadcode wants to have to learn how to code on a mac as well ;)

Apple computer is definitely on the rise, and they're selling like hotcakes now more than ever (with the new release of the macbook and the entire intel-based line)

and what does every iontel based mac have ?
boot camp
and what does boot camp do for you?
run windows
and what can windows do?
crash, suck, get infected... ...burn, run every worms game released for pc...

I doubt Deadcode wants to have to learn how to code on a mac as well ;)Actually, he's a very learning-enthusiastic person; much more than most people. He seems to want to know everything about the world and try learning everything he can. It's really fascinating. :) I wouldn't be surprised if he already knew a ton about Macs already.

and what does every iontel based mac have ?
boot camp
and what does boot camp do for you?
run windows
and what can windows do?
crash, suck, get infected... ...burn, run every worms game released for pc...
And what does Boot Camp need? A legal installation CD of XPSP2.

And what do quite a few Mac users have absolutely no need for? An installation CD for Windows.

And what does Boot Camp need? A legal installation CD of XPSP2.

And what do quite a few Mac users have absolutely no need for? An installation CD for Windows.
good poiny:p

For starters, Team17 have no experience coding on Macs
that's a realy naive argument. mac is coded exactly the same as a pc. yeah, the architecture is different, but for the most part, the difference is taken care of by the compiler. all of the game code can be ported by simply compiling c++ code with a mac compiler. the parts that will need to be re-written are the things that relate to the input/output operations directly. now, if you are going to tell me that t17 coders are incapable of writing a simple 2d sprite engine for a mac, i am just going to have to laugh at you. we are not talking about some code that neds to be perfectly streamlined to push the hardware to the limit. we are talking about a game that ran perfectly fine on a 486.

it's all about finding a publisher. as long as someone is willing to publish the game, the port is trivial.

that's a realy naive argument. mac is coded exactly the same as a pc. yeah, the architecture is different, but for the most part, the difference is taken care of by the compiler. all of the game code can be ported by simply compiling c++ code with a mac compiler. the parts that will need to be re-written are the things that relate to the input/output operations directly. now, if you are going to tell me that t17 coders are incapable of writing a simple 2d sprite engine for a mac, i am just going to have to laugh at you. we are not talking about some code that neds to be perfectly streamlined to push the hardware to the limit. we are talking about a game that ran perfectly fine on a 486.

it's all about finding a publisher. as long as someone is willing to publish the game, the port is trivial.
What about the differences in graphics - Open GL (not sure if Apple still use this on the IntelMacs) compared to DirectX - surely that needs some learning?

I don't wish to get into a big argument about this, but if it is as easy to port stuff to mac as your post suggests, how come it took Feral Interactive and Zonic over a year to port Worms 3D to Mac, and about 6 - 9 months to port Worms Blast?

@ quakerworm. it maybe be simple, but can T17 be bothered to do it? i doubt it, they proberly got better thngs to do.


What about the differences in graphics - Open GL (not sure if Apple still use this on the IntelMacs) compared to DirectX - surely that needs some learning?


i thik they still work with opengl, seeing the universal games work on both intel and mototrola chips

I don't wish to get into a big argument about this, but if it is as easy to port stuff to mac as your post suggests, how come it took Feral Interactive and Zonic over a year to port Worms 3D to Mac, and about 6 - 9 months to port Worms Blast?
i dont know much about it, but i thought i read some where (this could also be from another game) that feral had to re-write a lot of the game to make it fully working

i dont know much about it, but i thought i read some where (this could also be from another game) that feral had to re-write a lot of the game to make it fully working
Isn't that what he just said?

No, they just waited a long time to realease it to make it seem like they were working hard, DUH! :rolleyes:

What about the differences in graphics - Open GL (not sure if Apple still use this on the IntelMacs) compared to DirectX - surely that needs some learning?

I don't wish to get into a big argument about this, but if it is as easy to port stuff to mac as your post suggests, how come it took Feral Interactive and Zonic over a year to port Worms 3D to Mac, and about 6 - 9 months to port Worms Blast?
i expect, it is a 2d vs 3d issue. when porting a game that utilizes 3d graphics, you are going to have a lot more rendering code which is going to be integrated much stronger into the engine. messing with 3d code can much easier affect other portions of the engine than with 2d. also, such an engine requires a lot more power to operate, which means that you cannot simply throw away a resources on sloppy, unefficient code. in case of a 2d engine, it's not a problem, since the resources are available in access.

as for directx vs opengl, or even some other graphics library, it does not really matter. first of all, both directx and opengl coding is fairly straightforward if you stick to basics, and nothing is more basic than a 2d spite engine. second, the differences are mostly in which functions are used to do everything rather than in how it is done, so if you know how to code with one, coding with another is easy enough with proper refference material, which can even be found on-line.
@ quakerworm. it maybe be simple, but can T17 be bothered to do it? i doubt it, they proberly got better thngs to do.
that's a better question, but it still comes down to publishing. if publishers are willing to pay for the production of the port, t17 could hire some programmers for the duration of the port. it might not be particularly profitable that way, but it would help keeping worms franchise alive, which is a good thing in itself.

m.. they could give the source away, i dont think they will use the same engine for a game anyways. so if they make it opensource, in a few weeks/months a mac and linux version should arrive if any one has intrest in it :-/ if not. at least it would be free for windows :p

they could give the source away
No, they can't, because they don't own 100% of it.
There were 3rd party, out-of-house programmers working on the game back in the W2 days and that code has been used in W:A and WWP too, IIRC.

Also, there have been lots of different publishers who have been bought up one after the other and who also might have something to say.

another good point:p
then i'd say we (mac users) should wait until
A) they wave their magic stick and give us W:A mac os x
or B) some third party developer thinks "hey! lets make a worms like game" (wich there are plenty of but meh)

open source =/= free, in general. even if they open the source, you'd only be able to compile the executables, but you would still need all of the graphics and audio data, which does not necessaraly be freely distributed with an open source game. however, it would make it possible for someone to port the executable, and then, to run it on mac or some other system, you would be able to buy the windows version, unpack it manualy, and then replace windows executables and libraries with the counterparts compiled for your system.

as bonz said, however, it's not going to happen.

If the right people care about it enough, it can happen. That is, someone else could write an open-source engine clone for W:A that can use the original data. Some people without W:A might even come up with alternative working data, making it a complete game..

It's been done before.

Does anyone remember the real-time Worms game which used Worms Armageddon's graphics? It was illegal, but if someone made a game well using WA graphics, then asked permission before distributing it, good things could start happening. Too bad no Worms player is that good a game developer. I mean, people aren't even contributing to the Worms Knowledge Base (http://wiki.thecybershadow.net/Worms_Knowledge_Base), besides a few, who aren't even doing that very well. Making a high-quality game is beyond the current wormers.

Of course, I hope I'm completely wrong with that last statement.

Too bad no Worms player is that good a game developer.
Ask Plasma. ;)

Ask Plasma. ;)
I do believe he said a good game developer. :p
Besides, I suck at reverse engineering.

Too bad no Worms player is that good a game developer.
Are you aware that you just insulted every Teamster with your post?

I mean, people aren't even contributing to the Worms Knowledge Base, besides a few, who aren't even doing that very well.
There's a big difference between coding a game to be compatible with a Mac, and adding information you already know to someone else's web page.

there are a lot of freeware worms like games, like rifle slugs. i could ask the builder of lugaru, if he has some free time he could even make a 3d game out of it :p

Are you aware that you just insulted every Teamster with your post?Har. You know I didn't mean them. Also, I was really talking about 2D-Worms-game-players. I doubt they still play Worms Armageddon.There's a big difference between coding a game to be compatible with a Mac, and adding information you already know to someone else's web page.You already know about the file format specifications for all the files used by Worms Armageddon? You already know exactly how every bit of the game logic works? The wiki was originally started for developers to dump their reverse-engineering research. You obviously didn't look at those sections.

You obviously didn't look at those sections.
I did, but I didn't spot the relevance.

Fair enough.

Uh, when you make an engine clone you're supposed to do it WITHOUT reverse-engineering..

It wouldn't be very precise then, would it? Well, pTymN made a rope physics clone (RopeBurn) without reverse-engineering and it was pretty darn good, so you may be right.

Uh, when you make an engine clone you're supposed to do it WITHOUT reverse-engineering..
Oh, I was thinking of editing the origional engine so it can be compatible with macs.

That's not really legal without permission, I think. ;)

wich is hard to get since ...
No, they can't, because they don't own 100% of it.
There were 3rd party, out-of-house programmers working on the game back in the W2 days and that code has been used in W:A and WWP too, IIRC.

Also, there have been lots of different publishers who have been bought up one after the other and who also might have something to say.

Ehrm, you know that there is a "quote" button, which automatically uses the correct name of the original poster... :rolleyes:

wich is hard to get since ...
*quote*
Oh right, I forgot about that...

wich is hard to get since ...Wow, I love it when I say things without even knowing it.

Wow, I love it when I say things without even knowing it.
Yup .

ermm.. sorry:o my bad

Ya know, I'm just thinking that it would be much easier if you just ran Virtual PC and then played worms.

Ya know, I'm just thinking that it would be much easier if you just ran Virtual PC and then played worms.
Virtual PC is no longer being made - Microsoft have axed it (you can still buy it, for a short while), and it won't run at all on intelMacs - you have to buy Windows and install it via Boot Camp, or run other virtualisation software, which has all the problems associated with emulating something.

Damn it... so there IS no OSX port for any ver. of Worms? :mad:

I've been playing since early 2000 - and recently switched to OSX. Got hopeful with a google search on "worms armageddon" mac - but am now dissapointed. :(

Andy

so there IS no OSX port for any ver. of Worms?
There are.
The original Worms (->demo (http://www.dream17.co.uk/demos/worms.sit)), Worms Blast (http://www.feralinteractive.com/?game=wormsblast&section=&language=english) and Worms 3D (http://www.feralinteractive.com/?game=worms3d&language=english&section=) have been ported.

The Original Worms would almost definitely NOT work in OSX, since it barely worked in OS9....

Although, i haven't tried it, I doubt anyone has done a Carbon port of it, let alone an Intel/Universal port... And seeing as you can't run OS9 on the new intelMacs.

For starters, Team17 have no experience coding on Macs - they have to wait to be approached by another publisher (like Feral Interactive in the case of Worms Blast and W3D, or Infogrames/Macsoft in the case of WA).

The only Mac game T17 have ever done in-house was Worms1, and I think they had assistance from Ocean then (who probably no longer exist).


Also, there would be problems with WA for Mac and the continuing development of WA for PC, with their Beta patches - Macs wouldn't be able to play against PC users unless the Mac version was being continuously patched as well, and I doubt Deadcode wants to have to learn how to code on a mac as well ;)

Actually the Mac version was done in-house in 1996.

There are some subtleties to developing on Mac but generally we don't generally bother since the traditional mac gaming markets are not huge - and we tend to spend our time where we can make money (it's a business, see) and the income from Mac games markets don't generally provide much return.

I wouldn't rule a Mac Worms game out entirely in future, but the chance of WA being re-released for Mac are pretty remote, all things considered. Sorry.

Actually the Mac version was done in-house in 1996.

There are some subtleties to developing on Mac but generally we don't generally bother since the traditional mac gaming markets are not huge - and we tend to spend our time where we can make money (it's a business, see) and the income from Mac games markets don't generally provide much return.

OK, thanks for the info Spadge :) I suppose now Macs have gone with Intel chips, it's slightly easier as long as you're willing to axe PowerPC support (maybe feasible in a few years)

I wouldn't rule a Mac Worms game out entirely in future, but the chance of WA being re-released for Mac are pretty remote, all things considered. Sorry.

:D I'd love to see Worms4 on Mac, or even a totally new worms game.

*Goes and pesters Feral some more*

now, if you are going to tell me that t17 coders are incapable of writing a simple 2d sprite engine for a mac, i am just going to have to laugh at you.

No, T17 coders are very capable of writing a simple 2d sprite engine for mac, but they're not gonna do it, because they have some common sense and know they shouldn't waste a minute of their time working for macs.
Macs aren't made for games. The only reason apple still exists is that their ipods sell well, except for that, macs are goin down the drain.
Why do you think 99% of the games only come out for pc and not mac?

No, T17 coders are very capable of writing a simple 2d sprite engine for mac, but they're not gonna do it, because they have some common sense and know they shouldn't waste a minute of their time working for macs.
Macs aren't made for games. The only reason apple still exists is that their ipods sell well, except for that, macs are goin down the drain.
Why do you think 99% of the games only come out for pc and not mac?
Actually, the reason why games (and it is considerably less than 99%) are not made for mac is because it's not really worth making games for 5% of the world's computers.

Apple were doing well before the iPod - mainly thanks to the graphic design industry and American Lawyers who basically live off macs (don't ask why about the lawyers)

Modern computers are quite powerful, and it has been shown that Flash is quite powerful.

Couldn't Team 17 self-publish an online-only, flash based Worms game that is cross platform (Windows, OS X and even Linux)?

On another note, isn't the iPod click-wheel ideal for a Worms game? ;)

Modern computers are quite powerful, and it has been shown that Flash is quite powerful.

Couldn't Team 17 self-publish an online-only, flash based Worms game that is cross platform (Windows, OS X and even Linux)?
not a bad idea. though, i'd recommend using java rather than flash. java bytecode runs on a virtual machine, and java vm is available for just about any hardware. furthermore, i believe java is a little more efficient than action script.

Couldn't Team 17 self-publish an online-only, flash based Worms game that is cross platform (Windows, OS X and even Linux)?
Yes they could.


I think the real question here is "Why the hell would they?"