So if you wanted to be a cynic, you could say that this is a wireless PS2 controller with analog triggers like the Xbox, a central guide button like the Xbox 360, and internal motion sensors like the Wii. But what's probably most important is that the controller feels pretty nice and already seems to work well.
[Ignore all the retarded fanboyish stuff that was here a while ago.]
Edit: 'nother link (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/08/playstation-3-in-its-final-form/)

oh for christ's sake! is there nothing those companies won't stoops to?! I mean, I understand copying the idea, but rushing into it just because another company came up with a better idea?! that's just pathetic. I have officially lost all respect I have ever had for sony as a company now.

edit: don't get me wrong, I'm sure the system will be good and such, I've just lost respect for the company itsself for ripping off so much from other companies.

I think I want to be a cynic.

I think I want to be a cynic.as does most of the rest of the world I imagine....

edit: ya know? I realized something. this controller is a REALLY cheap move. they took their controller and added motion sensitivity to it....woot....that's all they did. the motion sensitivity will likely be overlooked except by a few games (think DS, for instance. there are a couple games that use the motion sensitivity, but not many). the PS3 will keep the same games as it's always had, but it will maybe get a couple exclusive games due to the controller...maybe....

I foresee their last minute idea ninjaing failing miserably :p

Sony mentioned the motion sensor controller back in 2003. So maybe Nintendo are the ones doing the 'ripping off'. Proooof: http://sony.gamerfeed.com/gf/news/4815/

Sony mentioned the motion sensor controller back in 2003. So maybe Nintendo are the ones doing the 'ripping off'. Proooof: http://sony.gamerfeed.com/gf/news/4815/personally, I'd say that old idea is irrelevant. they thought about it a while back and scrapped the idea. now that nintendo is releasing a console with motion detection, sony decides "HEY! maybe that old idea wasn't bad after all"....regardless of who's idea it was originally sony is only using the idea now because nintendo decided to use it first.....they're just following the trend while they still have time to capitalize off someone else's idea :p (edit: or should I say, TRY to capitalize off someone else's idea, because it's quite obviously something completely different. the PS version of the motion detection will likely get over-looked pretty quickly)

It's obvious that Sony thought of doing this because of Nintendo, which is the main point of this thread.
But anyway, that doesn't mean I have anything against Sony's GAMES, I still think FFVII is amazing and that Ratchet games seem worth playing. I just think this whole thing was quite pathetic. And I doubt that Nintendo intended copy Sony's 2003 project, I don't recall Nintendo ripping off any concepts in the past.

Well,i like sonys ps2 with eye toy,but i never liked sony at all.

personally, I'd say that old idea is irrelevant. they thought about it a while back and scrapped the idea. now that nintendo is releasing a console with motion detection, sony decides "HEY! maybe that old idea wasn't bad after all"....regardless of who's idea it was originally sony is only using the idea now because nintendo decided to use it first.....they're just following the trend while they still have time to capitalize off someone else's idea :p (edit: or should I say, TRY to capitalize off someone else's idea, because it's quite obviously something completely different. the PS version of the motion detection will likely get over-looked pretty quickly)
Yes! Lets all hate sony for copying nintendo! we will have to ignore the fact that the opposite even MIGHT be true but that doesnt matter because we are ignoring it!

Seriously though, I think this was incredibly stupid and cheap of sony :\ IF they did copy off of nintendo that is (which i admit is the most likely option)

Er.... a couple of points:
(think DS, for instance. there are a couple games that use the motion sensitivity, but not many)
The DS doesn't have motion sensitivity.
But anyway, that doesn't mean I have anything against Sony's GAMES
Sony don't make games.

Sony don't make games.
Well, the companies that work for them.

Why on earth did Sony keep those kiddy controllers?

Why on earth did Sony keep those kiddy controllers?
Kiddy? Hey at least it's not as bad as the banana ones.

I don't know about the DS, but the GBA did. I can only think of one game, "Kirby's Tilt and Tumble Advance" that used it, but it was there.

And I say, no big surprise. If I knew Sony could integrate it into their system so fast, I would have seen this coming a mile away. I was considering whether to go Wii or PS3. But between the price of the PS3 and this copy-catting, I'm definetly going to buy the Wii.

<edit> Here's a nice little article http://revolution.ign.com/articles/705/705870p1.html Maybe we were jumping to conclusions, or maybe Sony just didn't feel capable of fully implementing true motion sensing in time.

I don't know about the DS, but the GBA did. I can only think of one game, "Kirby's Tilt and Tumble Advance" that used it, but it was there.
The tilt sensor used by that game was built into the game cartridge, not the GBA.

I can only think of one game
Here's another:
Yoshi Topsy Turvy
Later renamed and universalised (so they work with bottom-loading devices (e.g. DS, GBASP) to:
Yoshi's Universal Gravitation
(They're the same game, just one has DS/GBASP compatibility, the other doesn't)

It's not motion sensor, it's only tilt sensor. It's not near the functionality of Wii, I see it mearly as a way of getting driving and balance stuff to feel more natural. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for the controller.. I'm glad it stays in the same shape, the banana controller scared me.
Sony are taking the safe way out by going with what works; the old design. So I am kinda releived.

It's not about hating or loving Sony. It's about the games. Who cares about the company anyway? Just play the games that come out and get the consol that plays them. No the other way around.

It's not motion sensor, it's only tilt sensor. It's not near the functionality of Wii, I see it mearly as a way of getting driving and balance stuff to feel more natural. There is nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I've used a tilt-pad before and it was absolute hell. I'm very wary about adding it into a control pad that already has two analogue sticks.

As for the controller.. I'm glad it stays in the same shape, the banana controller scared me.
Sony are taking the safe way out by going with what works; the old design. So I am kinda releived.
I hate that pad. It's square, and my hands are not. It isn't comfortable in the least. And it's taking the safe way out all the time that's why real gamers (for want of a better term) dont like Sony and Microsoft.

It's not about hating or loving Sony. It's about the games. Who cares about the company anyway?
I do. Sony's (and Microsoft's) business practices are frequently dispicable, and as such I choose to boycot their products. I happen not to wish to give any of my money to companies that willingly break the law and abuse monopolies and so forth when there's a perfectly nice company making the same kind of product better. If you buy their products that's going to send them a very clear message that their current behaviour is acceptable, and I happen to think that it isn't, so I won't be sending that message. If that means I don't get to play Fifa August 2008 then all the better.

It's only really frustrating that I'd never have wanted to buy those products anyway. But there must be someone with principles and bad taste in videogames somewhere.

I hate that pad. It's square, and my hands are not. It isn't comfortable in the least.
Me too.
The holes for the screws on the backside always scratch against my hand.
And the handles are way too short (for my hands at least).

You guys really need to go on a beginners course on how to hold the controller, you are obviously doing something terribly wrong.

If you need a lesson on how to hold a controller, somethings wrong with the controller. And yes that includes the N64 controller (man I hate that thing.) Anyway, I've held the ps2 controller, and yeah I wouldn't call it the best design in the world, but if I had time to get used to it I don't think it would be a problem.

And about that boycott, it's not really that. I chose Gamecube because both Playstation 2 and XBOX showed that they were targeted to a more adult audience. PErsonally, I like games like Worms and such that some call kiddie, but I personally don't think grittiness is necessary in a game. I play some "adult" games like Ghost Recon and Battlefield 2, but personally, I like Nintendo's "kiddie" reputation. It beats every other game being rated M. In my opinion, no game should ever have to be rated M. And yes I know, the orignial Ghost Recon was M, but if it was re-released today it would only be T, times have changed.

<edit> So everyone knows what I'm talking about, in America, M= mature (18+) T equals Teen (13+)

Kiddy? Hey at least it's not as bad as the banana ones.

Boomerangs, not bananas.

Yes! Lets all hate sony for copying nintendo! we will have to ignore the fact that the opposite even MIGHT be true but that doesnt matter because we are ignoring it!

Seriously though, I think this was incredibly stupid and cheap of sony :\ IF they did copy off of nintendo that is (which i admit is the most likely option)uh.....your second part of the statement says that you agree with me......I didn't say "OMG SONY SUCKS!!!!" I said they only used the motion sensing because nintendo announced what they were planning. I didn't say sony sucks, I didn't say the system would be crap, I said it was a lame and cheap move....that's all. I lost respect for sony as a company, not the system itsself. I still think the PS3 will end up doing just as well (possibly a little worse cause the fan boys on a lot of forums and such seem to be screaming about the rumble), I just no longer have any respect for the company.

I don't know about the DS, but the GBA did. I can only think of one game, "Kirby's Tilt and Tumble Advance" that used it, but it was there.
The tilt sensor used by that game was built into the game cartridge, not the GBA. I was actually referring to the games like the wario game that had tilting in it, I was just confused thinking that it was for DS instead of GBA. my statement remains, I was just confused :p

It's not a question of copying -- motion-sensitivity has beed around for years anyway. We've have a PC pad that uses it for ages. The point is that Nintendo have a proper well-tought-out system and Sony have got a rushed halfway-there version of that system added at the last minute because they didn't want to lose face, and that a lot of people won't be able to tell the difference. Nintendo have every right to feel miffed. It's really indicative of the difference in strategy between Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo add the features a console needs, whereas Sony add features that will make the spec-sheet look impressive. If there's anything on the Wii spec-sheet that the PS3 doesn't have then it's only a matter of time before Sony find a way to shoehorn it into the increasingly weighty Dual-Shock 9, even if it won't be used, or if it won't work, or if it will just get in the way.

I was actually referring to the games like the wario game that had tilting in it, I was just confused thinking that it was for DS instead of GBA. my statement remains, I was just confused :p
The fact remains that the reason so few games used the tilt sensors in the DS and the GBS was because those consoles did not have tilt sensors. In every case, the sensor was built into the cartridge. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it.

You guys really need to go on a beginners course on how to hold the controller, you are obviously doing something terribly wrong.
I'm doing something precisely correct: I am holding a GameCube pad instead.

The fact remains that the reason so few games used the tilt sensors in the DS and the GBS was because those consoles did not have tilt sensors. In every case, the sensor was built into the cartridge. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it.meh, you may well have a point with that one.

I'm doing something precisely correct: I am holding a GameCube pad instead.

Yes, run from your problems instead of facing them!

Yes, run from your problems instead of facing them!
It's not my problem if Sony can't do ergonomics. Come on, look at the Dual Shock pad and tell me that that's a shape your hands naturally form. It's not. I have larger than average hands, as well, so maybe Sony didn't consider me when they designed it, but for whatever reason it's just not anything like as comfortable as a GameCube pad. I played Luigi's Mansion for hours at a time when we got that and I didn't even realise I'd been playing that long. I couldn't have done that on a PlayStation because my hands would have hurt afterwards. I did much the same thing on Wetrix on the N64 too, and that was fine. Good pad design is a science that Sony just haven't mastered.

I've been given a choice between a pad that's uncomfortable, one that's comfortable, and one that's a foot across, and I've chosen the comfortable one. Sue me.

I have larger than average hands, as well, so maybe Sony didn't consider me when they designed it
Maybe Sony thinks that computer games are for children.
They should add a controller for adult hands in the package of games like Resident Evil then. :)

The Game Cube controller is smaller than the PS2 controller, so what was that about big hands?

And to answer your question: Yes. When I look at the PS2 controller I don't just see a comfortable controller, I see perfection. :p

Your not supposed to get as much of your hands on it as possible. So if your index finger is wrapped around the L buttons, like you would on a Game Cube controller, you are holding your hands to far up. Same as the thumb on the d-pad and the X O /\ [ ] buttons, only the tip of the thumb should be on them. The GameCube controller might be better in the way that they force you to hold it the right way. Either way, I like them both.

Here is me being a smartass *******:
Incorrect (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/darkxinos/wrong.jpg)
Correct (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/darkxinos/correct.jpg)

The Game Cube controller is smaller than the PS2 controller, so what was that about big hands?

...

[You're] not supposed to get as much of your hands on it as possible. So if your index finger is wrapped around the L buttons, like you would on a Game Cube controller, you are holding your hands to far up. Same as the thumb on the d-pad and the X O /\ [ ] buttons, only the tip of the thumb should be on them. The GameCube controller might be better in the way that they force you to hold it the right way. Either way, I like them both.
The GameCube controller is designed to fill your hands. It falls neatly into the shape your hands leave if you curl them up as if you were holding an imaginary gamepad. If your hands are a slightly different size your fingers won't curl quite as far around the back but they'll still hold it in place and they'll still reach the buttons. The PS2 does not naturally fill your hands. Your demonstration of the "correct" way to hold a PS2 pad (the other advantage of a Cube-style design being that, as you mentioned, there is no "wrong" way to hold it) proves it. It essentially seems to be saying that I should hold the pad quite gingerly. If I hold the PS2 pad like you are in that photo I will drop it. Either my hands will naturally try to grip it properly and revert to the "wrong" position, or else I'll squeeze it too hard at some point in the game and it will shoot out of my hand like a bar of soap. And then it will break because that is what PlayStation products do when you give them a gentle tap.

A gamepad should be designed to be ergonomic, and if that means shaping it like an amorphous blob that doesn't go with the look of the console, shape it like the amorphous blob and make a cool looking stand for it. You're not going to be looking at it during the game anyway.

And to answer your question: Yes. When I look at the PS2 controller I don't just see a comfortable controller, I see perfection. :p
Are you by any chance Ken Kutaragi (http://www.shacknews.com/extras/kutaragi/070705_kutaragi_01.x) in a less than cunning disguise? It's not "perfection". It's barely even "good".

Personally I thought the original Xbox controllers were great because they're far more comfortable to hold than any other controllers (for me anyway).

The "banana/boomerang" ps3 controllers look far better and far more comfortable than those horrid ps2 ones which have to be one of the most uncomfortable I have ever used.

This discussion is becoming quite hilarous..
If you don't like the PS2 controller that is fine. I've been making a big deal just for the fun of it.

Of all the controllers that can't fit your hand it's the dreamcast controller. Now that thing is crazy..
It's worse than the original Xbox controller I think, since it has hard edges that you have to reach around with your fingers.

Of all the controllers that can't fit your hand it's the dreamcast controller.
Hmm...
I find that this is the best controller that my hands have ever grabbed.

Hmm...
I find that this is the best controller that my hands have ever grabbed.are you serious? that thing was about as comfortable as a teddy bear made completely of barbed wire.

It falls neatly into the shape your hands leave if you curl them up as if you were holding an imaginary gamepad.
And it would know a gamepad shape from WHICH console that you play most? :rolleyes:

The dual shock has won numerous awards for it's shape and ergonomics and is widely accepted as the best (which was why the PS3 banana was so controversial. As far as I know the Gamecube pad has no such recognition

The dual shock has won numerous awards for it's shape and ergonomics and is widely accepted as the best (which was why the PS3 banana was so controversial. As far as I know the Gamecube pad has no such recognition
Sounds pretty much the same as music to me :p Crap gets good reviews, good stuff is unheard

The dual shock has won numerous awards for it's shape and ergonomics and is widely accepted as the best (which was why the PS3 banana was so controversial. As far as I know the Gamecube pad has no such recognition
Also note that PSP got some "gadget of the year" thing (which people keep using in their stupid console wars), even though it doesn't revolutionize anything. Sony are just more mainstream than Nintendo.

I can't judge it though, I've only used a dual shock once in a demo station for a minute or so on a crappy racing game.
Edit: What Blob said.

I don't have the problem of screws-hurt-my-hands, but I do have a problem with the D-pad-is-where-the-left-analog-should-be, the analog-sticks-don't-feel-too-good, the what-the-hell-does-that-analog-button-do, and the buttons-just-don't-really-feel-good-when-you-press-them.
That said, I do like the many buttons.

I don't get why the Gamecube controller gets such a bad rap for it's nonconventional button setup. They say it's bad for things like fighting games, but Soul Calibur 2 felt fine. With the gamecube buttons, all of the buttons are a different shape, making it easier to tell which is which. The dualshock doesn't even have the buttons name (X,O, etc.) etched into the buttons, so they all feel the same.

Plus, with the gamecube setup, your thumb rests on the A button, and it's very close to every other button. It's easy to do combos, too, and the only combo you can't really do is B and X.

Also, the Dualshock feels okay, but the Gamecube controller seriously feels like it was made for human hands. It's all nice and curvy, JUST HOW I LIKE MAH WOMENS.

Personally, I mostly just like the Dualshock because of those 4 extra L buttons. Just releasing the same controller for the PS3 is stupid, as there are ways to improve it.

Make it feel smoother. As smooth as silk. Smooth as a baby's bottom. Or something. Just make it feel nicer in my hand.
Fix those screw positions. I don't have a problem with this, but a lot of people do. (Not just from this forum.)
Make the buttons nicer to press. When I press the PS2 buttons, they just kinda go in. The gamecube buttons actually feel like they've gone in and hit the sensor, and the L+R triggers are WHEE.
Improve the analog sticks. Make them lighter, right now they just feel clunky. And give the top of the stick a bit of friction. The gamecube controller has that little target thing on top that keeps my thumb stuck to it. Something like that. (At least make them concave, rather than convex.

Though I guess that they did get rid of that useless analog button.
Could anyone tell me what that actually did?

personally, my problem with the dualshock is the buttons all FEEL the exact same. I don't know about you guys, but I play games by feel. I don't look at which button is which after the first time I play a system. on the gamecube that never caused me any problems because all the buttons feel different because they are shaped and react differently to pressure. on the PS2 controller, I still to this day have to look at the controller every time I play a game to make sure I'm pressing square instead of circle (very few people I've seen play games have ever gotten to a point where they know those 2 buttons well enough to not have to think about it). yes, admittedly I could fix the problem by paying more attention, but with the GC pad I didn't HAVE to pay attention, it just felt right from the beginning.

I still to this day have to look at the controller every time I play a game to make sure I'm pressing square instead of circle
I have exactly that problem.

It's probably down to the fact that they're very similar colours (pink and red), which makes oscreen button prompts for them almost idestinguishable on my tiny telly. I can't imagine how much frustration I would be saved if they just made square yellow.:p

Has anyone seen how much the PS3 will be in the UK?

£425!!! (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17105)

Has anyone seen how much the PS3 will be in the UK?

£425!!! (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17105)yes, the price of that system will be retarded. we all know that by now :-/

yes, the price of that system will be retarded. we all know that by now :-/
It's a prefectly sensible price. They'll sell quite a lot at that price and get a huge bag of money from each one, and then they'll drop the price once the rich-stupid market sector is dry so they can capitalise on the poor-stupid sector. Have you never read Dilbert? That's how Economics works.

It's a prefectly sensible price. They'll sell quite a lot at that price and get a huge bag of money from each one, and then they'll drop the price once the rich-stupid market sector is dry so they can capitalise on the poor-stupid sector. Have you never read Dilbert? That's how Economics works.the fact that you make a legitimate point scares me...

Just thought I'd like to bump this thread:

Clicky! (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/06/05/PS3_hardware_could_be_hobbled/)
At this point, anyone that even considers buying a PS3 should probably be shot at first sighting, for the sake of mankind.

good lord! if that's true then sony isn't even TRYING to make a decent system at this point...

good lord! if that's true then sony isn't even TRYING to make a decent system at this point...

Right, because, if lower things... and higher prices...

er...

THIS IN NONSENSE!! THEY ARE DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVE!!!

But it will sell like allways, because of the... "I want a playstation" refering theyselves as "I want a TV console"...
Which I hate...

Given that there's a playstation 2, a thing that plays ps3 games, a blu-ray player, and a computer (the kind that can do computery things) in there, it might be worth the price depending on what you want.

It's just not worth the price if what you want is a "thing that plays games".

1000$ for a ps3 with 80gig hdd.... i seriously doubt im gonna buy one... and like 700$ for a standard console. (AUD)

so, who wants to bet there's no PS4?

1000? :eek:
Thats INSANE!...

But people will buy it anyway

Right, because, if lower things... and higher prices...

er...
Sony get richer!

Because they're taking advantage of the stupid people with more money than brains!
You should try it, it's incredibly easy nowadays.

It's just not worth the price if what you want is a "thing that plays games".

The reason why I got the Gamecube.

And the same reason why I never consisdered the PS2 or 3. The original PS was good though.

So, an inferior console with inferior controller (ok, it's better than the old ones, but still inferior to the Gamecube's and Xboox's) that's got an insane price tag.

Still going for Nintendo.

oh for christ's sake! is there nothing those companies won't stoops to?!

I think i read somewhere that the PS3 controler will only sence motion in 6 directions(Up, Down, Left, Right, Forwards, Backwards), where as the Wii had more of a sphere kinda sensor.

At the end of the day, Ive seen the Wii trailers like Metroid, a pretty cool sword fighting game and some sports games like tennis which all use this technology to the full on the Wii.

The only PS3 trailers Ive seen featuring the motion sensor were some space flight sim, and a rubber duck in a bath :)

Im gonna back Nintendo all the way on their innovative ideas, fun games and the fact that you can get the old catalogue of 'retro' games downloaded onto the Wii.

And the same reason why I never consisdered the PS2 or 3. The original PS was good though.
Nah, the PS2 was good.
Although inferior to the Xbox, and the Gamecube just had different games, it was still worth getting if you had a PS1.

I think i read somewhere that the PS3 controler will only sence motion in 6 directions(Up, Down, Left, Right, Forwards, Backwards), where as the Wii had more of a sphere kinda sensor.oh, don't get me wrong there, I know what the PS3 is capable of. it's nothing near the level of the Wii, and I only thought it was for about 15 minutes after I heard teh announcement. what I was talking about in the part you quoted was that sony made an ATTEMPT to copy nintendo, and whether it worked or not is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing.

oh, don't get me wrong there, I know what the PS3 is capable of. it's nothing near the level of the Wii, and I only thought it was for about 15 minutes after I heard teh announcement. what I was talking about in the part you quoted was that sony made an ATTEMPT to copy nintendo, and whether it worked or not is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing.
I think the part that bothers me is also that Sony had considered amotion sensor and decided it couldn't be made to work. Then Nintendo made it work and when Sony found out they immediately announced that they'd have one too and set about shoehorning their not-quite-working version into their already crowded pad. Over the years, Sega, Sony and Microsoft have all added features to their consoles such as the Game Gear's colour screen, the X-Box' online play or the PlayStation's second thumbstick, and Nintendo's response has always been to ignore them. They adopt the stance that what features other consoles have is not a factor that directly affects what features theirs should have, and they're right. Sony, and to a lesser extent Microsoft, seem to think that their console must do everything the other consoles can do, albeit badly. I'd be suprised if there's never a PSP with a touchscreen. It's a really unprofessional approach to designing something and that's why you end up with all these faults and problems and clumsy controllers.

The thing that suprises me most is that sony axed the rumble feature from the PS3' controller (I guess we can't call it 'dualshock' 3 anymore) because it interfered with the motion sensors.

And at the moment it loooks like all but one of the current launch titles will not be using the technology.:p

that's what they SAID they axed it for, in reality they lost a law suit and are no longer allowed to produce their own controllers with rumble feature included. they can con another company into doing it for them, but they cannot do it themselves. :p

Are you serious? 1000 quid? they can go stuff themselves. I'll gladly save myself 750 quid and buy a Wii