i'm an unsatisfied bleating little whiner... but we've had about five patches
in five minutes over the last ten days or so.... and while it's great to see work
continuing wah wah wah... deadcode's not actually really producing much of
any worth....

okay... so we got a couple of flags for the one or two people that play in
the wee countries of deep dark euroland... and we got the ability to
extract "video" to a series of pngs... but really, where's the good
content? extra game options? new weapons? something we can actually
play with in the game?

i'd rather just wait for the oh_so_fabled_v4 than be drip fed placebo
patch medication....

(e)

Wait for v4.0 then.

uh-huh. perhaps i was being too subtle for you....

v4 is never going to see the light of day... it's a dream... and in my opinion it's
something that deadcode holds over the community to keep/bolster his
status/popularity....

meanwhile, pointless patches are released to keep you hanging on and believing
that something is actually going on behind the scenes.... really, if he was working
hard on v4, why would he bother to divert his attention to the patches we been
receiving recently? it's not like they're critical bugs... who even noticed or cared
about the "quarter-second delay during which the worm did not move at all" that
was fixed in the last release?

(e)

how many games do you know that get any updates at all after more than 6 years? :-/
today most games are dead after 2-3 years...

or look at all the ea games crap! you have to pay the full price for only a few new things each year! :p

i'm an unsatisfied bleating little whiner... but we've had about five patches
in five minutes over the last ten days or so.... and while it's great to see work
continuing wah wah wah... deadcode's not actually really producing much of
any worth....

okay... so we got a couple of flags for the one or two people that play in
the wee countries of deep dark euroland... and we got the ability to
extract "video" to a series of pngs... but really, where's the good
content? extra game options? new weapons? something we can actually
play with in the game?

i'd rather just wait for the oh_so_fabled_v4 than be drip fed placebo
patch medication....

(e)

well, new weapons ain't gonna happen in a patch i think, due to the fact that well, everything would be incompatible

u can do some stuff on ur own though. new weapons can be made using the fiddler, landscapes and new schemes can be made easily

u could learn how to edit the frontend and sprites if u wanted to

just do stuff on ur own

whats the problem

double post edit

today most games are dead after 2-3 years...

this is where ur are very wrong

who even noticed or cared
about the "quarter-second delay during which the worm did not move at all" that
was fixed in the last release?

(e)
Probably lots of people, in fairness. That sounds very annoying. It was only introduced a patch or two before, though, so a lot of people bypassed ot totally. That's what open betaing is about.

double post edit

this is where ur are very wrong
Idunno. Most games are dead in two or three months. How many games from 2002 do people still play? And how many were released that year?

Idunno. Most games are dead in two or three months. How many games from 2002 do people still play? And how many were released that year?

i can think of many

that's stupid when u said 2 to 3 months

how many games do you know that get any updates at all after more than 6 years? :-/

yea, but the updates are of no significance, so one way of looking at it is that its
not really getting updated at all.... it's hardly something to brag about.....
"hey... check out us smug ones here in the wa community... six years later and
we're still getting new flags!"....


just do stuff on ur own
whats the problem


the problem is that i was hoping for some proper gaming experience updates....

the fiddler is next to useless.... and as i found out recently, it only works on the US
version of the game....

and i have done stuff on my own... i created the random scheme generator (http://www.moonshine.org)

yea, but the updates are of no significance, so one way of looking at it is that its
not really getting updated at all.... it's hardly something to brag about.....
"hey... check out us smug ones here in the wa community... six years later and
we're still getting new flags!"....
There are a few other things that are gradually being added with the new beta updates, if you'd give them a chance. You do realize that these updates are being done solely by Deadcode, who is not officially part of Team17? He's just doing this in his spare time, you know. He's not getting paid for it or anything (at least, not to my knowledge). Be thankful that the game is getting any updates after this long. You don't walk around griping that The Sims isn't getting any more expansion packs now that The Sims 2 is out, do you? :p

and i have done stuff on my own... i created the random scheme generator (http://www.moonshine.org)
Well that's a good start. See if you can find other things to create if that's what turns your crank.

He's just doing this in his spare time, you know. Be thankful that the game is getting any updates after this long.

yup, i'm fully aware of the deadcode situation... however, he's the guy in control of v4, he's the
guy setting everyone's expectations.... i just don't understand the attitude of 'give praise, you're
getting something'... when something is next-to-nothing why should we really be giving thanks?
seems kinda cult-of-deadcode to me....

You don't walk around griping that The Sims isn't getting any more expansion packs now that The Sims 2 is out, do you? :p

deep truth... probably because i wouldn't be seen dead participating in such a filthy little game....
but seriously, i doubt The Sims was the pinnacle of the series, still played six years later by the
clear thinking individuals of the community.... it all comes back to expectation... if deadcode hadn't
announced v4, i wouldn't be sitting here crying about it.... but even so, since the game is still being
actively updated... it seems fair to enquire whether we could have something cooler bundled in
than "The Intro fade-in screens (Team17 and Microprose logos) have been improved"... to me that
just seems like a waste of resource and energy when he could have either been working on v4 or
some other interesting addition to the gameplay....

it only works on the US version of the game....
wrong!
i have the european multilanguage version and it does work!
just follow the instructions in -->this (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22649) thread closely!

i just don't understand the attitude of 'give praise, you're
getting something'... when something is next-to-nothing why should we really be giving thanks?

Because it's not nothing. By all means, complain. But most people are happy with his work, so nothing about it is going to change.

the problem is that i was hoping for some proper gaming experience updates....

the fiddler is next to useless.... and as i found out recently, it only works on the US
version of the game....

and i have done stuff on my own... i created the random scheme generator (http://www.moonshine.org)

proper gaming experience updates?

that sort of thing doesn't come in an update, it comes in an expansion pack or something like that

u've done the random scheme generator. that's excellent. mabye u could try to develop it some more, or mabye work on something else

it's really up to u to change it. the updates are really just to fix bugs and solve problems (and mabye the odd small feature)

i'm an unsatisfied bleating little whiner... but we've had about five patches
in five minutes over the last ten days or so.... and while it's great to see work
continuing wah wah wah... deadcode's not actually really producing much of
any worth....

okay... so we got a couple of flags for the one or two people that play in
the wee countries of deep dark euroland... and we got the ability to
extract "video" to a series of pngs... but really, where's the good
content? extra game options? new weapons? something we can actually
play with in the game?

i'd rather just wait for the oh_so_fabled_v4 than be drip fed placebo
patch medication....

(e)

The game was originally developed in 1998, some 7 years ago. Christ, what do you expect in terms of value for money. In terms of entertainment per cent/penny, you're not doing bad. Since it's costing you nothing, quit whining.

2 things that were patched that are significant:

#1: Falling from that certain height that parachute wouldnt open at, now it does. Big thumbs up.

#2: Being able to walk backwards. Not that big of a factor as far as strategy or gameplay or whatever, but still nifty =p

I used to curse and slam my fist on the keyboard whenever I slide off an edge and the parachute didnt open and the worm hit the ground for fall damage, so that being fixed itself is pretty sweet.

Dont get discouraged Deadcode, you're doing great =p take your time man you dont gotta rush for impatient a$$holes ;) Lata'

2 things that were patched that are significant:

#1: Falling from that certain height that parachute wouldnt open at, now it does. Big thumbs up.

#2: Being able to walk backwards. Not that big of a factor as far as strategy or gameplay or whatever, but still nifty =p'

I beg your pardon? I hope you weren't being serious.

By far the biggest changes that have been made are firstly, the ability to record and play back games, and secondly, XP compatibility, since many people use XP now. Possibly not in that order.

Also, I think the ability to play colour maps online must be pretty significant.

uh-huh. perhaps i was being too subtle for you....

v4 is never going to see the light of day... it's a dream... and in my opinion it's
something that deadcode holds over the community to keep/bolster his
status/popularity....

meanwhile, pointless patches are released to keep you hanging on and believing
that something is actually going on behind the scenes.... really, if he was working
hard on v4, why would he bother to divert his attention to the patches we been
receiving recently? it's not like they're critical bugs... who even noticed or cared
about the "quarter-second delay during which the worm did not move at all" that
was fixed in the last release?

(e)

Umm. Deadcode doesn't care at all about his status/popularity. A lot of people are still very angry with him, because Deadcode created Silkworm, which was a huge cheat program for WA and it caused loads of problems on WormNET for a long time.


And he's stated, and if you were not too lazy to actually read what he has said about v4, it will come out, when he's ready. But currently he's adding features, then he needs to fix the replay system, secure logins, ranks etc. Then he can release 4.0.


He's also said that 4.0 will *not* be a final (although it was originally going to be, that's changed), so it's just a nice number that will bring in secure logins and ranks. It's not going to be "TEH FINAL PATCHZ0R!1!2". He doesn't intend to stop patching.



Feel free to moan about him, his work and what he's doing. All you'll do is put his morale down, and as he could spend his time on much more important things than making patches for people that whine when he releases the patches, then he'd probably work on them less. And so you'll get the stuff you want even later.


Not everyone wants loads of new gameplay features all the time. For a start, when he makes them, unless they're minor then they have to be tested for a while to make sure they don't break it horribly.




But in the end - Deadcode's not making the patches for you. He's doing it because he enjoys it. If you don't like the patches, don't download them. Go play something else and come back in a few months when more patches are out.




p.s. Many patches were out in the past few days because there *was* quite a few critical bugs with that caused a lot of people's games to crash/not work. The first patch was a proper update, the rest were fixes of problems, mainly introduced by the proper update.

p.p.s. M3ntal and I help test the patches before they're released to the public. We've seen and have new features that you won't have for a while. I can confirm Deadcode is making large new gameplay features, I've used the damn things. And I have no reason to lie, it's not like I'm working on the patch or would get any credit or popularity for saying so.

p.p.p.s. Half of the new flags added were not from Europe, so it wasn't just from "Euroland".

wrong!
i have the european multilanguage version and it does work!
just follow the instructions in -->this (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22649) thread closely!

i did, you'll notice i have the very next post in that thread... covering ground that
were so daintily re-treading now....


The game was originally developed in 1998, some 7 years ago. Christ, what do you expect in terms of value for money. In terms of entertainment per cent/penny, you're not doing bad. Since it's costing you nothing, quit whining.


well, spadge, i bought the game in 98.... i can only assume that for you to suggest
i'm crying about value for money is simply a badly thought out knee-jerk reaction?

i was trying to make the point that if deadcode is making patches - why not concentrate
on something more useful/fun/interesting/cool than making the green of brazils flag
just a shade darker?


And he's stated, and if you were not too lazy to actually read what he has said about v4, it will come out, when he's ready. But currently he's adding features, then he needs to fix the replay system, secure logins, ranks etc. Then he can release 4.


i have read what he's written... with aching enthusiasm.... which is why i questioned
the use of wasting time and energy on the patchlettes that have come out recently....
particularly, as you so rightly point out, when a bunch more patches are required to fix
new bugs they introduced....


But in the end - Deadcode's not making the patches for you. He's doing it because he enjoys it. If you don't like the patches, don't download them. Go play something else and come back in a few months when more patches are out.


well, d/ling the patches is a given if you wanna keep up with the joneses... its not that i
don't "like" them... for the final repetitive time; they just seem kinda, um, pointless....

anyways, i can see that we're going to get nowhere here... the cult-of-deadcode is
now fully erect... and what a lively little member it is....

(e)

Eeevans, you have alot of nerve talking like that. Especially considering you haven't been around that long. Deadcode has been doing these patches for something like (i believe) 2 years now, and he has made a huge amount of progress. In fact these patches have been the reason fot the greater part of the oldschool wwp players to move over to w:a (something a few years ago would have seemed like betraying your faith).

W:A is not deadcode's private little project, it's a part of alot of people. The people that have played for longer periodes now have all added to the game. By making graves, flags, soundbanks, fanfare, maps, missions, scemes, gametypes, frontends, custom sprites, additional programs, and lots more. Almost everyone that has ever been active in the online community has done put a bit of there creativity into this game. We owe deadcode alot, for doing this for the community, and we owe team17 for giving him that chance.

But basicly what it comes down to has been said before; if you want worms to be improved, be creative, instead of demotivating deadcode by yer attitude towards him.

Just give him some time. The fact that your game is even getting patched with some very useful features is a Godsend. I was a WWP player and never really thought that WA would be any different whatsoever. And I guess that out of the box, that stands true. However, Deadcode's patches have increased the game dramatically.

Wow, so you've had a couple of weeks having to inconvenience yourself oh-so-much by downloading some minor patches. Guess what? That's what beta testing is all about. Any other game's beta versions has just as many updates as this, often a hell of a lot more. Development is slow, sure, but whining about it isn't going to suddenly inspire Deadcode to develop everything you desire plus more. If anything, it'll wind him up.

Honestly, I don't think you realise how lucky you are to still be getting updates after so long to such a (relatively to various other games) niche game. Maybe you heard about Tribes 3. It has a lot more players than Worms, but you know what Vivendi did, only 8 months after the game came out? They cancelled any patches, after not releasing even one proper patch. All of the bugs and incomplete features that the game released with were never patched out, and never will be. All the people that bought the game are now stuck with a flawed game, despite having paid good money for only around half a year ago, just because it didn't sell as many units as Vivendi wanted.

That's the situation you could be stuck with right now. Honestly, just be thankful for the fact that you've even got updates and a fairly flawlessly working game. If you really want to help Deadcode, then make some more of your "this feature would be nice" thread, with an explanation of how it could be a good addition, so that other people can judge your suggestion and Deadcode can get an idea of what exactly should go into future updates. Threads like this help nobody.

i was trying to make the point that if deadcode is making patches - why not concentrate
on something more useful/fun/interesting/cool than making the green of brazils flag
just a shade darker?
In fairness, I bet that took all of twenty seconds to do.

anyways, i can see that we're going to get nowhere here... the cult-of-deadcode is
now fully erect... and what a lively little member it is....


I'll sum it up in just a few easy sentences that don't mention Deadcode, to try and get some atoms to stir in that orb atop your shoulders.


You may not, personally, think that certain patches are useful/interesting. However, some people will feel the same about patches that have features that you want. You might want a gameplay feature that some of WormNET would never use. We don't moan when patches come out with things we don't want, so please, don't moan when they have things you don't want.




Deadcode what he wants. Not for you. Not for me. For himself. He wanted to fix the flags, so that's what he did. He does it for fun, it's not a 9-5 job.


But I can see I'm not going to get anywhere. The troll part of your brain is active, and what a lively part of your brain it is.

In fairness, I bet that took all of twenty seconds to do.
Probably ten if he already had a source picture of the Brazillian flag to go off of. Five if he could manage to do it in one click on the first try. :rolleyes:

how many games do you know that get any updates at all after more than 6 years? :-/
today most games are dead after 2-3 years...

FWIW I bought Worms Forts on the xbox and I've still not received an update to fix the Sudden Death god worm animation issue, and that was the most recent release. So maybe it might have been a good idea to fix new releases first with a serious but easily fixable gameplay problem. The patches for WA as eeevans says are cool but they don't do much in the way of enhancing gameplay itself.

N

double post edit

The game was originally developed in 1998, some 7 years ago. Christ, what do you expect in terms of value for money. In terms of entertainment per cent/penny, you're not doing bad. Since it's costing you nothing, quit whining.

Aw man...Spadge...this is not a man whining (or trolling as someone else suggested) - this is a man putting forward some reasonable questions - like if you're devoting resources to W:A patches, why not spend them all on v4 rather than minor patches - thereby getting v4 out sooner.

Also he, and most of us are paying customers - not just of a game 7 years ago, but of the newer games like WF:US. Most people who have played a Worms game before are buying the Worms experience when they buy a new T17 title, not necessarily that particular game. So the people who appear to be whining are your fans and revenue base...those who love and care about it. The Sims was mentioned earlier - the financial success of The Sims is incredible - because Maxis gave the COMMUNITY the ability to enhance gameplay beyond simple levels and schemes. It then provides a monthly revenue, a lively community and new content daily. Open source content gaming, so to speak. You already have the community - with v4 you can generate real income.

Here's my point to you Spadge - re: "since it's costing you nothing" - so why don't you charge us for an expansion pack or something? Let us fund some of the resources needed to get v4 out. I know you're running a business, and coding hours don't often come for free (deadcode aside) - and I for one would be willing to pay. Put up a poll to see if others would...it would be interesting and probably good business sense.

T17's stated direction is in 3D not 2D, but even at the cost of hard cash? I don't see that 2D and 3D games are mutually exclusive either. Continue 3D - there's a whole new world of players loving it, but don't turn your back on 2D - especially when there appears to be an excellent business case for it. It won't devalue 3D's brand - if anything it reinforces it as being from the same DNA as Worms 2D, a legend in gaming. Proven old school greatness.

N

double post edit

That's the situation you could be stuck with right now

I'll say it again (because 40 quid on a wasted game hurts) : those of us who bought WF:US on xbox ARE STUCK in that situation - a game with a fundamental gameplay flaw that isn't being patched, making the game effectively useless for online/multiplayer games.

N

Aw man...Spadge...this is not a man whining (or trolling as someone else suggested) - this is a man putting forward some reasonable questions - like if you're devoting resources to W:A patches, why not spend them all on v4 rather than minor patches - thereby getting v4 out sooner.
Having someone code things for you because they choose to is hardly "devoting resources".

put it all into v4? this IS v4. It wont speed it up by not showing us.
I would rather have the beta patches as they come then have been sitting here for another few years while DC gets bored. Programming for a community when you can get no feed back is nasty at the best of times and would probably take longer as he would have to do more testing himself.

I realy dont see the problem here, we've gone without our patch for 6 years now, what's another one or two on top of it? At least we are getting there now!

Having someone code things for you because they choose to is hardly "devoting resources".

No, but who is leading the coding of the T17 application here - Deadcode or T17? Remember, I'm not slating Deadcode or any of his effort or ideas. His skills and enthusiasm clearly qualified him enough for him to be entrusted with the source code, so why not help 'steer' the direction of development. That's really what I'm trying to say by "devoting resources" - directing development focus.

Look, I also know he does this because he loves it and no doubt he learns lots from doing it - probably has a day job, and doesn't need someone at T17 telling him what to do re: extra work that he's doing off his own back. I'd just like to see v4 before the other new bits and pieces that we've recently seen (unless of course they're stability issues) and now that the issue is out in the open, isn't anyone else open to the idea? Okay, so Eeevans isn't ever going to make it as a diplomat but he did raise an interesting question. Deadcode - what sayeth you? What's your 'to-do' list looking like? Do you think dropping your current v3 projects and spending the time on v4 would help/not help you/the community?

As you no doubt can tell, I'm very much a 2D Worms player and have been since W1. I've bought almost every single Worms game (apart from Blast :)) over the years. I've really tried hard to be open minded and get with the 3D program - bought W3D and played it and it just wasn't Worms. I tried hard but without multiplayer/live it was boring. I bought WF:US even after W3D, and the Sudden Death god worm anim just killed multiplayer gameplay dead. I've tried and tried and tried to play and like 3D. Mayhem looks like it might do it as I'm betting there are lots of lessons learned (at my expense, yer basts). BUT - my point is that to this day 2D still is the most fulfilling satisfying gameplay around. For me, W:A is the apex of Worms 2D (W2 would be the best with WormNet) so this is where I have to get my fix...others feel the same way and hence their passion about this. Until you give us an up-to-date/improved/next version of 2D worms, W:A is all we have!

N

(p.s. I'm still serious about licensing a new Worms 2D brand ("Classic") if none of the publishing houses are interested. If they're too stupid to see the opportunity then I'm going to step up - I just need an idea of dev costs if anyone is willing to discuss it)

All this work is leading to v4. You don't just jump from A to Z, there are steps in between. Adding new flags was just an extension of the bug fixing, WA wouldn't even start if certain countries were selected in Windows. Best to fix bugs before adding new features. Autologin was recently added and we are finally getting to hear some sound effects that were never played, those are cool features in my opinion. Offline rope knocking was a highly requested feature and has finally been added ( not something I will use but I don't mind that time was spent on it ). We know he has experimented with interesting gameplay changes, what we see in the patches isn't the only things being worked on, just what Deadcode thinks is stable/polished enough for release.

Here's my point to you Spadge - re: "since it's costing you nothing" - so why don't you charge us for an expansion pack or something? Let us fund some of the resources needed to get v4 out. I know you're running a business, and coding hours don't often come for free (deadcode aside) - and I for one would be willing to pay. Put up a poll to see if others would...it would be interesting and probably good business sense.
There's a simple reason that they don't charge for the patches for W:A, present or future. Almost nobody would pay money to buy the patch. The community is damaged as it is right now, forcing the public to pay for patches to this game would cripple it, and there would be absolutely NO recovery from it. It sounds like good business sense on paper, especially if the game was fairly new and the patches had costs from the very beginning. But you can't just turn around in the middle of patching and collect money, especially on a game as old as W:A.

(p.s. I'm still serious about licensing a new Worms 2D brand ("Classic") if none of the publishing houses are interested. If they're too stupid to see the opportunity then I'm going to step up - I just need an idea of dev costs if anyone is willing to discuss it)
You should probably have at *least* 10 million dollars on hand to license it, probably a whole lot more than that.

Deadcode - what sayeth you? What's your 'to-do' list looking like? Do you think dropping your current v3 projects and spending the time on v4 would help/not help you/the community?
Alright, it's been said, some of the things from the patches right now aren't absolutely essential. And those that have spoken up about it are probably right. But, the fact remains, that all the patches are eventually leading up to v4. To immediately jump up to v4 is both insane and unfeasable. These features have to be tested, and the community is restless. If he waits to release anything else until v4, and even then, only works on it, there's going to be ALOT of stuff in that project, and most of the stuff would otherwise be dispersed about the patches leading up to it. Think about it, which would you rather have? Mini-patches for several months, or waiting the same amount of time for one big patch? Now, I know what you're going to say, but I think that the majority of the community would put Deadcode on the bullet train to heck if he didn't release the mini-patches. Alot of people were complaining on Wormnet about the gap between the previous set of patches and this one, so just try to imagine the uproar of potentially having to wait 2 to 4 times as long between the current set of patches, and one big, super, v4 patch. Once again, it would most likely be community crippling. Whether the community would survive THIS particular crippling is up to speculation, but I'd rather not find out the consequences. So, just deal with the mini-patches, because that's very likely the way things are going to be.

There's a simple reason that they don't charge for the patches for W:A, present or future. Almost nobody would pay money to buy the patch. The community is damaged as it is right now, forcing the public to pay for patches to this game would cripple it, and there would be absolutely NO recovery from it. It sounds like good business sense on paper, especially if the game was fairly new and the patches had costs from the very beginning. But you can't just turn around in the middle of patching and collect money, especially on a game as old as W:A.


You should probably have at *least* 10 million dollars on hand to license it, probably a whole lot more than that.


Alright, it's been said, some of the things from the patches right now aren't absolutely essential. And those that have spoken up about it are probably right. But, the fact remains, that all the patches are eventually leading up to v4. To immediately jump up to v4 is both insane and unfeasable. These features have to be tested, and the community is restless. If he waits to release anything else until v4, and even then, only works on it, there's going to be ALOT of stuff in that project, and most of the stuff would otherwise be dispersed about the patches leading up to it. Think about it, which would you rather have? Mini-patches for several months, or waiting the same amount of time for one big patch? Now, I know what you're going to say, but I think that the majority of the community would put Deadcode on the bullet train to heck if he didn't release the mini-patches. Alot of people were complaining on Wormnet about the gap between the previous set of patches and this one, so just try to imagine the uproar of potentially having to wait 2 to 4 times as long between the current set of patches, and one big, super, v4 patch. Once again, it would most likely be community crippling. Whether the community would survive THIS particular crippling is up to speculation, but I'd rather not find out the consequences. So, just deal with the mini-patches, because that's very likely the way things are going to be.

Things are cooking in the background which we aren't ready to discuss as yet. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on with worms in 2d, 3d and on different platforms. The end is not nigh and in good time all will be revealed.

He's also said that 4.0 will *not* be a final (although it was originally going to be, that's changed), so it's just a nice number that will bring in secure logins and ranks. He doesn't intend to stop patching.


What does it implie concerning WWP community? Since there were things planned once WA patching would be finished, does it mean it will be canceled?

Anyway, as said above, all fixes, even small ones, arre gonna be included in next patches, so why complain about them being released earlier?

Anyway, as said above, all fixes, even small ones, arre gonna be included in next patches, so why complain about them being released earlier?

because he believes that they are pointless. and that updates should only be released once something interesting is added

if he feels that they are pointless, then don't download them

anyway, if deadcode didn't release these smaller updates, there would be some who wouldn't believe that he was doing anything

because he believes that they are pointless. and that updates should only be released once something interesting is added

if he feels that they are pointless, then don't download them

anyway, if deadcode didn't release these smaller updates, there would be some who wouldn't believe that he was doing anything

jesus, man... is that spluttering noise the sound of your tiny misshapen skull pounding
relentlessly against a dry stone wall?

are you intimating that deadcode is merely doing releases to silence those that would
believe he's doing nothing? did someone get a visit from the irony fairy?

why not set up a page where he can outline things he's working on for version 4 and
how far along they are... updated fortnightly... hardly a huge effort... and everyone
gets to see the progress happening...

why not set up a page where he can outline things he's working on for version 4 and
how far along they are... updated fortnightly...
have you ever seen any game developer putting up a webpage where gamers can look up the status of the patch progress?hardly a huge efforti bet deadcode can make/edit at least 20 new flags in the time it would need to make such a webpage... :rolleyes:

are you intimating that deadcode is merely doing releases to silence those that would
believe he's doing nothing? did someone get a visit from the irony fairy?

no, it's only a small comment i made stating a possibility that could happen

sarcasm was not something i required

double post edit

jesus, man... is that spluttering noise the sound of your tiny misshapen skull pounding
relentlessly against a dry stone wall?

dunno where u got that idea from

really, i don't

btw, why did you release the random scheme generator already?
requireing the end user to download 23mb of microsoft .net crap!
why not finish the product? standalone, maybe with an installer...
:D
nothing against it, i like that tool! it's just the same silly argumentation!

Eeevans, what is it you want, specifically, from Deadcode? (specifically as opposed to vague: "something cool")

So far all you've said is that the current features are pointless, yet you have provided no alternative to this scenario. I can think of an alternative: nothing at all. It's not an alternative I approve of. What alternative are you thinking of?

Eeevans, Deadcode could quite easily wake up today and decide he doesn't want to work on the updates anymore. He would be disappointing an entire community and be the result of much malice and hatred in the Worms community, but he could just decide to drop it. That's the thing with this. As has been stipulated over the past few posts, Deadcode is using his spare time to improve a game that was released 7/8 years ago.

All we can do is be patient. We know Deadcode is working on the updates. Hell, some of us socialise with the guy. Some of us have pre-tested the patches. Some of us are able to wade through "patchlettes" until we get to the really, really meaty stuff. The Secure Logins, the Rankings, those are the Holy Grail of any WA player right now.

I figured this would happen. Team17 said, about 4 years ago, that the BETA-4 Patch was on its way, then Nothing Happened. People complained. Now the update is finally on its way, we have occasional "patchlettes" to tide us over, and people are still whining. You, specifically. I'm sure you could be whinging about far more important stuff. Hey, my copy of "Space Invaders Anniversary" didn't come with that free keyring that the sticker on the front cover promised. Shall I go on their forum and ***** about it...?

why not set up a page where he can outline things he's working on for version 4 and
how far along they are... updated fortnightly... hardly a huge effort... and everyone
gets to see the progress happening...

Umm.. because, as has been said, he's not dedicating his time to v4 yet. He's doing the stuff he wants to do first, then he needs (needs) to finish a lot of replay stuff and fix secure logins and ranks. Then, and only then, will v4 be released.



v4 isn't going to be some revolutionary "add 50000000 new cool gameplay features" patch. It'll just be a nice version number that (I believe) will appear once Deadcode is happy with the security of the online system.


To steal the phrase from id software:


It'll be finished when it's finished.

(Or was that "It'll be done when it's done.")

I forget. You get the meaning anyway. I can't be bothered to google and find out what it was.

To steal the phrase from id software:
It'll be finished when it's finished.
citing 3drealms:
coming "when it's done" :D

Things are cooking in the background which we aren't ready to discuss as yet. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on with worms in 2d, 3d and on different platforms. The end is not nigh and in good time all will be revealed.

YEAH BABY! Say no more, but it's really nice to know that there IS a light on at the end of the 2D tunnel, albeit v. dim and uncertain.

Thanks for throwing even this tiniest of bones :) (and that's bones, not Bonz ;P)

N

double post edit

have you ever seen any game developer putting up a webpage where gamers can look up the status of the patch progress?

Errr - yes! (ok, not patches, but what about .plan files and these days blogs...?)

N

double post edit

btw, why did you release the random scheme generator already?
requireing the end user to download 23mb of microsoft .net crap!
why not finish the product? standalone, maybe with an installer...
:D
nothing against it, i like that tool! it's just the same silly argumentation!

I'd blame MS for that, not Evz - how can the size of the code libraries be his fault?

N

double post edit

Eeevans, what is it you want, specifically, from Deadcode? (specifically as opposed to vague: "something cool")

So far all you've said is that the current features are pointless, yet you have provided no alternative to this scenario. I can think of an alternative: nothing at all. It's not an alternative I approve of. What alternative are you thinking of?

I don't know what he's thinking of, but here's something that I'd like to see in a pre v4 patch, if at all poss.

- bigger sizes of levels : 8 years or so later we're all running on better hardware than we did when W:A was originally dev'd and pub'd. I'm not talking latest and greatest, but even the lowest spec eastern europe PC today is better than the best UK PC 8 yrs ago. So - how about extending the map size > 1920 x 696? If there are reasons why this can't be done, then howabout vertical maps? 696 x 1920?

N

As if he were using all librairies of .NET.

Anyway... Microsoft wants .Net to become a standard, so we all ahve to dl it at any moment

double post edit


I don't know what he's thinking of, but here's something that I'd like to see in a pre v4 patch, if at all poss.

- bigger sizes of levels : 8 years or so later we're all running on better hardware than we did when W:A was originally dev'd and pub'd. I'm not talking latest and greatest, but even the lowest spec eastern europe PC today is better than the best UK PC 8 yrs ago. So - how about extending the map size > 1920 x 696? If there are reasons why this can't be done, then howabout vertical maps? 696 x 1920?

N

Already discussed, and planned

Eeevans - rest assured, there are more "significant" updates on the way. I was chatting to Deadcode yesterday, and he's working on some pretty cool stuff at the moment. I've tested some of it - and i'm talking about more than those replays i've been posting of firing dragonballs and kamikaze's from mid air inbetween roping, before you ask.

Eeevans - rest assured, there are more "significant" updates on the way. I was chatting to Deadcode yesterday, and he's working on some pretty cool stuff at the moment. I've tested some of it.

...this is why t'would be cool to see a (maintained) TODO list, courtesy Deadcode.

Evz's frustration stems from not knowing/seeing what mysterious plans y'all have afoot.

(Off|Bounced-back) Tis a shame that we can't OpenSource W:A, create a public Subversion/CVS server, and open the coding to ppl other than just Deadcode (though keeping him, for example, as committer from Dev to Stable).

When I see all of the Wurm-Clones that ppl have *already* done, it strikes me as a damn shame that instead of reinventing the wheel, we can't really progress together. I've seen some quotes up-thread from ppl encouraging Evz to do some coding, rather than whinging - a solution like this would be a real solution, rather than just troll-responses.

(Incidentally : My personal opinion is that "Secure-Logins & Rankings" aren't actually very important : what I'd much prefer to see would be real evolution in the *gameplay*...)

Voila, voilou.

I don't know what he's thinking of, but here's something that I'd like to see in a pre v4 patch, if at all poss.

- bigger sizes of levels : 8 years or so later we're all running on better hardware than we did when W:A was originally dev'd and pub'd. I'm not talking latest and greatest, but even the lowest spec eastern europe PC today is better than the best UK PC 8 yrs ago. So - how about extending the map size > 1920 x 696? If there are reasons why this can't be done, then howabout vertical maps? 696 x 1920?

N

I have a good feeling about bigger map sizes. I can't be 100% sure, but I was speaking to deadcode a few months ago about map sizes and the Worms engine and he said that it could be very easily changed just by tweaking a few numbers. The problem, though, is that lots of other things depend on map sizes and their code would have to be adjusted to accommodate the variability. The map editor, for example. I'm not sure how extensive that is.

But I still have a good feeling about it.

Edit: never mind, didn't read Seita's post ;)
That confirms the feeling though.

As if he were using all librairies of .NET.

Anyway... Microsoft wants .Net to become a standard, so we all ahve to dl it at any moment


Already discussed, and planned

If this has been discussed and planned (in here no doubt), why not keep a public list of suggestions and items on to do lists?

It seems to me that a lot of the discussion here is miscommunication. What you're saying to each other and what you're hearing are somewhat different. I think it's about setting expectations - so a public list of to-do's and suggestions might go a long way to ensuring that we're all on the same page. Otherwise, unless you trawl through archives there's no way to know - and then angry threads happen when people suggest things.

Just an idea...

N

p.s. Also, on the subject of new ideas....I'm a big fan of mixed mode terrain if possible (i.e. non-destructable pixels and destructable pixels on the same map). Am sure this has been discussed endlessly before, but just registering my interest. Plus there are some brilliant weapons ideas at WormTech - could we vote/discuss on a weapon to go in the vacant mystery 13th byte? (me non-coder, so please excuse cluelessness)

I have (had) a sort of "to-do" list up here (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/otherwormnet.php).

But it's out of date by half a year.

In fact, that page is redundant anyway, because i just uploaded this (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/wahelp/) (posting a thread in a minute) and the relevant page is here (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/wahelp/update.php). Of course, that's also incomplete because I don't know everything that's planned ;)

a lot of the discussion here is miscommunication
yep, that's true!
i think we need a sticky-ed thread with all suggestions and/or a poll...
(the v4.0 thread is a big pile of mental diarrhea)
actually i was thinking about opening one 5 min ago...

have you ever seen any game developer putting up a webpage where gamers can look up the status of the patch progress?

well, yea, actually... quite a few development houses involve themselves pretty deeply with
their community... not least of all microsoft, who have key visual studio developers releasing
information almost daily via their public blogs... also, lets not forget the fact that many of you
have gone to great lengths to point out that deadcode isn't a game developer... but a carefree
nerd that has fun his way.... so it didn't really seem that unreasonable....


requireing the end user to download 23mb of microsoft .net crap!



As if he were using all librairies of .NET.


firstly, as i already explained previously, any application written in .net requires
the .net framework. you either d/l this yourself, or i bundle it with the application...
either way you're downloading 23Mb... that MS's call for their cutting edge development
platform... you can't choose which libraries to install... its an all or nothing deal...


v4 isn't going to be some revolutionary "add 50000000 new cool gameplay features" patch.


so he's not adding customizable hosting and fiddler like functionality?

basically it boils down to what people have just posted recently... a little more transparency
from deadcode and the entire community is the winner.... a suggestion thread is ok, but
these things tend to get bogged down in 12 year olds inconceivable fantasies... so i'd still
like to see something only editable by deadcode.... updated fairly regularly... and hell, make
it current - it doesn't have to be v4 specific - especially if the patchlettes are baby-steps towards
v4... instead, let us know whats coming round the corner!...

(e)

so he's not adding customizable hosting and fiddler like functionality?

He is, actually (yay)

But not new weapons. That would take far more work, not least of all in the art department. Someone has to draw all those sprites. I guess it depends on the weapon in question.

He is, actually (yay)

But not new weapons. That would take far more work, not least of all in the art department. Someone has to draw all those sprites. I guess it depends on the weapon in question.

and it would really screw up what i'm doing with the games sprites at the moment

so he's not adding customizable hosting and fiddler like functionality?

Yes. But unless I'm mistaken then not all of it will come with v 4.0.0. They will come earlier or later.

When do you think the fiddler like feature will come? final pach / next pach or what?

p.s. Also, on the subject of new ideas....I'm a big fan of mixed mode terrain if possible (i.e. non-destructable pixels and destructable pixels on the same map). Am sure this has been discussed endlessly before, but just registering my interest.It's going to happen, not sure when though.

The thread creators argument was flawed to start with, the latest patches are the first ones released for over 5 months (last October to be precise)

As for ''no major changes'' I'd suggest he reads all of the README contents since ß30502

Xp compatibility
Minimise anywhere
All weapons selectable
Custom resolutions
Colour maps
Direct IP games
Game replays
/afk in chat
Countless number of glitches/bugs fixed
etc etc etc etc

Keep up the great work DC !

As for ''no major changes'' I'd suggest he reads all of the README contents since ß30502

Any chance of this sort of thing being transfered into a real online TODO list ?
(i.e. editable only by the code maintainers, but with proposals sucked from us, the worming public)

Keep up the great work DC !

It seems unfair that DC has all the responsibility and pressure, and while I'm sure he's a nice dude, I've no desire to fellate his ego on this forum - so how can I get access to the code, like DeadCode has, so that I too can add features?

(when you give me code access, I even promise to let you see my TODO list ...vote for me ! :)

so how can I get access to the code, like DeadCode has, so that I too can add features?

when T17 gives it to u, if they ever do

when T17 gives it to u, if they ever do

Which means ? Do I have to head for Yorkshire and buy beers ? What's the beef ?

Which means ? Do I have to head for Yorkshire and buy beers ? What's the beef ?

not sure

i think DC got it cos of his work with, um.......

forgotton it now........

Deadcode proved he was good enough by making Silkworm and Antisilk, the former of which was a huge cheating program (which he never meant to get public but certain people leaked it to other people, and so on and so forth), and the latter of which stopped the cheats working and added XP compatibility. He did this without the source.

Deadcode proved he was good enough by making Silkworm and Antisilk, the former of which was a huge cheating program (which he never meant to get public but certain people leaked it to other people, and so on and so forth), and the latter of which stopped the cheats working and added XP compatibility. He did this without the source.

Does this mean T17 had no choice but to get DC on their side, or face having a rogue talented coder changing gameplay externally without any input from the team? Intellectual blackmail?? :)

N

Which means ? Do I have to head for Yorkshire and buy beers ? What's the beef ?
you probably would have to buy a lot of beers, if you look at -->spadge's (http://forum.team17.co.uk/member.php?u=4) status and the -->t17 beergarden (http://www.team17.com/beergarden.html)! :D

v4 is never going to see the light of day... it's a dream...
Oh how wrong you are... it's nice to hear you've been dreaming about v4 though. Dreams come true all the time. ;)

btw, why did you release the random scheme generator already?
requireing the end user to download 23mb of microsoft .net crap!
why not finish the product? standalone, maybe with an installer...

You are seriously ignorant. The standalone programs you are referring to still have to rely on the underlying operating system. The Microsoft .NET Framework is not crap, it's a Windows update which allows you to run newer programs, and next time you get Windows, the framework will most likely be included already. Then you will start to think these programs are 'standalone' because your Windows is already updated. If every .NET program like the random scheme generator was made to run without the framework, they would all be 5-6MB each, it wouldn't take long before that added up to more than 23MB, and it would be a waste of space when you could just get the damn framework!

and it's not like 23mb is that big a download anyway for anyone on a broadband service anyway - 10 mins max

N

i was more or less making a joke, as a hint on his comments on deadcode releasing an unfinished product...

btw, the 23mb download took me less than 2min

Bonz in post-with-no-bright-tags-shocker

btw, -->run's new site (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/wahelp/) has a w:a update features section!
Bonz in post-with-no-bright-tags-shocker
i actually thought about putting my last sentence in bright tags, but was too lazy/tired/ambivalent/whatever... unlike now =)

i was more or less making a joke
Well... don't quit your day job and become a comedian. :D You had a good point though.

that's the problem with sarcasm in written format!
intonation & facial play are missing,
and sarcasm tags just spoil the fun... :-/

edit:
the grouping of the smilies on the right of the new post screen has changed...

btw, -->run's new site (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/wahelp/) has a w:a update features section!
What can I say ? That r0c|>5 !

Okay, well, let's strive to keep that wee bast up-to-date ! (<subliminal>wiki!</subliminal>)
I'd especially like to see some ideas sucked into the list from the rest of the WormTech site... (realtime/weapon-ideas/other-ideas, etc.)

(<subliminal>wiki!</subliminal>)

If i knew how...

Actually, there is a wiki WA site somewhere. But I forget where it is and it's very messy. Doesn't appear to have worked at all.

If i knew how....
<drumroll>
http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/
<applause>
<grin>

N

I've recently seen Wikipedias engine used elsewhere - I think it might be open source.... Cresson - any idea?
Tis fairly trivial - this consitutes reverse-sublimation : but leave this with me, and I'll set this up, and lob the URL to Run to link to next week somewhen (imminent fatherhood depending). Having said that, the "best" solution would probably be to run it on the same (Debian ?) box as the forum (Nmapping shows a recent-enough PHP), thereby tieing in editing-rights to user-accounts (are they MySQL-handled ?) or whathaveyou.

Sorry if I'm teaching y'all to suck eggs, but look -->here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki_software) for Wiki info...

Actually, there is a wiki WA site somewhere. But I forget where it is and it's very messy. Doesn't appear to have worked at all.

You're probably thinking of the Worms Wiki (http://sir.bittransfer.de/WormsWiki/view/Main/WebHome) hosted at the SIR site. I know it's a bit ugly and messy, but it's still useful..

You're probably thinking of the Worms Wiki (http://sir.bittransfer.de/WormsWiki/view/Main/WebHome) hosted at the SIR site. I know it's a bit ugly and messy, but it's still useful..
Whoa ! Well, actually, that's great ! :)

Y'see, we could just lob a TODO on the menu... but it wouldnae serve much purpose unless read/added-to by the coders-that-be - any chance that Deadcode could let us know what *his* point of view on this is, as otherwise, my posts are just farts in the wind...

(I'll also be quelling the raging (even uglier and messier) Twiki growth on my own machine then.)

You're probably thinking of the Worms Wiki (http://sir.bittransfer.de/WormsWiki/view/Main/WebHome) hosted at the SIR site. I know it's a bit ugly and messy, but it's still useful..

Actually, as it's Run, he'll have been thinking of http://wiki.fullwormage.com/

Trying to think if I can actually add anything constructive here....

To eevans:

Most of what DC's coded are actually excellent fixes, if you'd played the game online a lot you'd know what a relief it is to have that bug-with-the-parachute-not-opening-and-taking-FD bug fixed. The first 3 off the top of my head apart from that:


XP Compatibility.
Quite a lot of the community would have left utterly and never returned without this.
Game Replays
Can't really express how excellent this addition is. Would have been better when I was playing brilliantly, but better late than never :)
Color Maps
56ker at the moment so I don't use that many, but it's still a cool feature we never had before.


Deadcode's patches have dramatically changed the game. If you'd played the earlier versions online a lot you would realise how dramatically and actually be a little bit grateful, instead of complaining about the lack of features, which are unwanted by the majority of WA players. How can I say this and how would deadcode know? Because we've both played online. Quite a lot. With a lot of wormers. Over a long period of time.

You want him to create new weapons? Lol, buy a new game. That's something for a completely new game, these are updates and fixes, not expansion packs. Fact is that new weapons would be huge to integrate into the existing game, probably not be worth it and -ultimately- not up to Deadcode to introduce. Despite his work and talent he doesn't own the game, I'm not sure if T17 would actually allow this or not. And even they did and it's possible - it's outside the scope of an update. And there's more important things to do.

You want a schedule? Putting up a schedule would involve a lot of thought on what he's going to do, and committing himself to doing it within a certain timeframe. Sounds like more work than play to me and this is not his work.


I noticed Spadge said something about "not being the end of 2d or 3d" or something. Sorry Martyn, don't really know you v well at all but I have played the game online for quite a long time - t17 have said a lot in the past and never really delivered on any of it so let's say "i'll believe it when I see it". Secure logins and ranks? A chap called Lion?

ps: Don't make another WWP mistake. W:A is already far superior, despite Deadcode not even being finished with it. Entire clans of the people who enjoyed WWP are starting to move over to WA because of the improvements and generally the higher standard of play on WA.

And if anyone in a position of power is still reading, I would actually like to become a ßeta tester at some stage, I play this game more than M3ntal and Srage combined ;-)

You can't be a ßeta tester Al 2 cane - your W:A breaks too often ;)

Trying to think if I can actually add anything constructive here....
Um, well - I don't actually see much constructive at all in your response.
(en revanche, t'as tres bien léché les culs des certaines personnes)

You want a schedule? Putting up a schedule would involve a lot of thought on what he's going to do, and committing himself to doing it within a certain timeframe. Sounds like more work than play to me and this is not his work.
Um, I'm grepping the page as hard as I can, dude, but there's been no talk of schedules.

We've been talking about 'ToDo' lists : I'd like to see a maintainer-maintained list of features/bugs/upgrades - contributed to by the community (i.e forum-trawled suggestions) ...just so the good ideas don't slip, and maybe even with prioritisation so that the important stuff gets done first.

You want him to create new weapons? Lol, buy a new game. That's something for a completely new game, these are updates and fixes, not expansion packs. Fact is that new weapons would be huge to integrate into the existing game, probably not be worth it and -ultimately- not up to Deadcode to introduce. Despite his work and talent he doesn't own the game, I'm not sure if T17 would actually allow this or not. And even they did and it's possible - it's outside the scope of an update.
See my hi-jacking of the Open-Source thread for a proper response to this... (but in your heart, you *know* that you'd like to see the bugfixes /and/ the new weapons all at the same time !)

See my hi-jacking of the Open-Source thread for a proper response to this... (but in your heart, you *know* that you'd like to see the bugfixes /and/ the new weapons all at the same time !)

I'd rather see the bugfixes first. You know, what with new weapons needing new sprites, extensive testing, balancing, manipulation, quite a lot will need new features coded to the game. Yes, let's make the patches take ten times as long to come out. Because it's not like some people ***** about the slowness of the patches as it is.

...instead of complaining about the lack of features, which are unwanted by the majority of WA players.


wow, excellent - so you speak on behalf of the majority do you? why would the community
not want new features/weapons/game modes/tweaks/bonuses/hacks/extras?? is there something
special about worms players that sets them apart from ordinary game playing individuals?


How can I say this and how would deadcode know? Because we've both played online. Quite a lot. With a lot of wormers. Over a long period of time.


a lot of online time has given you the ability to just "know" huh? strange, cause whenever i'm
on the wormnet all i see are gaggles of n00bsayers and elitist children cussing one and everyone...
i've never seen anyone talking about the game - let alone future features and what they'd like to
see implemented... so, what you're really saying is that your little clique may have mentioned it
once or twice... and that's about it... did it go something like this?

> do u fink bazooka wud b cool in pink?
> that r0x0rs!
> how abuot a pink greanade?
> n00b!


You want him to create new weapons? Lol, buy a new game. That's something for a completely new game, these are updates and fixes, not expansion packs.


a new weapon isn't an update? what's the difference between an update and an expansion pack?
shouldn't replays and colour maps have been in an expansion pack? maybe you should never have
requested these features... maybe the response shoulda been "Lol, buy a new game."


And even they did and it's possible - it's outside the scope of an update. And there's more important things to do.


seriously? what important things are needed now? what life or death feature is required thats
more important than actually adding some kind of useful content to the game?

(e)

hey eeevans, here's an idea: why don't you just p!ss off if you dont like it.Noone is forcing you to play worm, and noone is asking for your oppinion. More accurate, people would rather you'd stfu

-->wormtech (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech) (i guess the community did have some thoughts about features/weapons/addons)
-->wahelp (http://www.wormiverse.com/wormtech/wahelp) (has a feature/suggestion listing)

hey eeevans, here's an idea: why don't you just p!ss off if you dont like it.Noone is forcing you to play worm, and noone is asking for your oppinion. More accurate, people would rather you'd stfu
Relax : let's de-troll, and be positive. No one *needs* to ask for his or your opinion : we're on an open forum here.

We're just after some clarity : i.e. to know when and what is planned for upgrades, and hope to be able to sway this process constructively (i.e. it'd be nice to be able to bugfix / implement_new_ideas&weapons ourselves !)...

to know when and what is planned for upgradesan official list of what is planned would be nice, but, please, nothing about any release dates whatsoever! it's finished, when it's finished! (if i'm not struck by lightning, i suppose to live some more years!)

hey eeevans, here's an idea: why don't you just p!ss off if you dont like it.Noone is forcing you to play worm, and noone is asking for your oppinion. More accurate, people would rather you'd stfu

wow, you're a little hot under the collar aren't you?
try untwisting your scrotum for that peaceful, easy feeling....

wow, excellent - so you speak on behalf of the majority do you? why would the community
not want new features/weapons/game modes/tweaks/bonuses/hacks/extras?? is there something
special about worms players that sets them apart from ordinary game playing individuals?Because they would rather he worked on bringing back secure logins and ranks than putting a new weapon in. There are already many many weapons, there aren't any online rankings.
a lot of online time has given you the ability to just "know" huh?No, a lot of online time has given him the ability to hear a lot of peoples opinions on the subject.
i've never seen anyone talking about the game - let alone future features and what they'd like to
see implemented... ..so that immediately means that no-one does? Personally, i chat quite a lot about it. Especially when i'm testing stuff online with other random people in the game, i explain what the new stuff is and usually answer any other questions they have about the updates. People often say "oh it'd be cool if..." and give ideas on stuff to fix/add. I also have quite a lengthy chat with Deadcode every couple of days or so about it, usually over a Battle Race or two. so, what you're really saying is that your little clique may have mentioned it
once or twice... and that's about it... If, by clique, you mean most active players registered here (http://www.cl2k.org), here (http://www.first-blood.co.uk), and of course on this forum, and by once or twice you mean multi-page threads about it popping up every couple of months leading to and from conversations had over MSN or WormNET, then yes.
a new weapon isn't an update? what's the difference between an update and an expansion pack?
The line between the two is a grey one, but expansion packs primarily focus on bringing new content to the game, whereas updates primarily focus on fixing bugs and making the current features more playable/useable. Yes, replays and colour maps are in that grey bit. You have to remember that Deadcode is a programmer, not an artist. I'm sure he'll add what he can, but an entire new weapon involves a little more than filling a mortar in red.
seriously? what important things are needed now? what life or death feature is required thats
more important than actually adding some kind of useful content to the game?Bug fixes, secure logins and online ranks for a start. What do you count as useful content? A new weapon? we already have loads of weapons, how is a new one more useful than, say, replays of games, or the ability to use custom drawn colour maps?

How about:

Ability to give individual worms on the same team their own weapons and health
Map makers can choose where worms, mines and barrels are placed.
Mixture of destructible and indestructible terrain on same map.
Option to make worms respawn in a designated area when they die (handy for RR's)


These features won't all be in the patch for a while, but they are all planned, plus more.

As for the idea of a wiki or something, personally i'd rather Deadcode spent his time actually implementing the new stuff than writing about it, and W:A is not going to be open source - it's not even all Team17's code. Deadcode and Team17 are under no obligation to do all this, so dictating what he must do to the game isn't going to get you anywhere. He'll add what he thinks would be good to add, and fix bugs as they are pointed out to him on the patch support forum.

How about:

Ability to give individual worms on the same team their own weapons and health
Map makers can choose where worms, mines and barrels are placed.
Mixture of destructible and indestructible terrain on same map.
Option to make worms respawn in a designated area when they die (handy for RR's)




Sounds pretty cool.
So this will make it possible to have all worms start at Start Automatically in a Rope Race?
Plus, I was thinking a while ago, and Im not sure if option 4 refers to this, but I was thinking that when you are playing offline to try and beat an RR time, it would be cool if after all your worms were drowned you could like backtrack to the begging of the game just after you placed your worms, to give it another try instead of having to restart the game and place worms again.

Also, would it be possible for in online games to have a vote option or something to restart a game without having to actually leave it. Say all the people die in a rope race, then you can choose to just retart it and all the worms pop back to where they placed them at the beginning.

Last but not least, will there ever be some sort of option to join into a game after it has been started?
Maybe if the lobby showed "Games not Started" and "Games in Progress", and then if you clicked on a "Games in Progress" game, then it would send a message in game to the host in the chat window, and they could choose to allow you to join the game...Maybe not as a player but atleast as a spectator... Maybe thats totally out of whack, but I thought itd be kinda cool.

Sounds pretty cool.
So this will make it possible to have all worms start at Start Automatically in a Rope Race?

It does. But look at the third option! That will spawn a whole new breed of BR and I can't wait.

Yep! Battle and Boom.
Dammit, I cant wait until finals are over. I would never have time for a Battle now.
Only 2 weeks!

ps: are you allowed to swear on Team17 forums? ...as long as its not going all out crazy.

ps: are you allowed to swear on Team17 forums? ...as long as its not going all out crazy.

I go by the general rule: "If the swearing filter doesn't catch it, then it can't be a swear word!"

when i'm testing stuff online with other random people in the game
when is that? i'd surely like to join such a game, as i only have good ideas when i'm playing!
Ability to give individual worms on the same team their own weapons and healththat would be like an expanded specialist worms setting! quite useful for ctf, fort or axis vs. allies!
Map makers can choose where worms, mines and barrels are placed.
are we limited to the standard 8 mines/barrels? i'd like to see some minewar games or gauntlet running games with lots of mines/barrels!
Mixture of destructible and indestructible terrain on same map.
that sounds quite hard to implement, as you would have to manually go through all the sprites of the landscape options to make it sensible! (e.g. rock=indestructible, easter egg=destructible)
and how will that work with user maps, btw?
ps: are you allowed to swear on Team17 forums?
verfickte dreckshure
the swear filter obviously doesn't speak german... :D

when is that? i'd surely like to join such a game, as i only have good ideas when i'm playing!

Maybe you should write them down then.

well, normal maps would probably just be as they are now - semi destructable levels would all be custom and done in ywo layers, one the normal 64 colour png, the second a 2 color bitmap (i assume)

i think the destructable thingy might also work as placement guide.

Thw different weapons for worms would surtainly be a cool feature. As would respawning be

So this will make it possible to have all worms start at Start Automatically in a Rope Race?Yes.Plus, I was thinking a while ago, and Im not sure if option 4 refers to this, but I was thinking that when you are playing offline to try and beat an RR time, it would be cool if after all your worms were drowned you could like backtrack to the begging of the game just after you placed your worms, to give it another try instead of having to restart the game and place worms again.If you drown, rather than your worm dying, it will automatically be teleported back to the start.Also, would it be possible for in online games to have a vote option or something to restart a game without having to actually leave it. Say all the people die in a rope race, then you can choose to just retart it and all the worms pop back to where they placed them at the beginning.Dunno about that one, it's not currently planned anyway. Did you know that if everyone in the game hits Alt+F4 at the same time, it draws the game and takes you straight to the next round screen? Deadcode didn't even know this until i showed him a week or so back - he dubbed it the surr3ntal :D.Last but not least, will there ever be some sort of option to join into a game after it has been started?This has been discussed, along with being able to stop playing halfway through a game and resume it later from the replay file. They are both likely to happen at some point, although not definite.

It does. But look at the third option! That will spawn a whole new breed of BR and I can't wait.I wrote this about a year ago, it'll be possible by v4.0:

http://katbox.iconrate.com/random/TeamObjective.txt

I've tried to make it as balanced as possible, but obviously i will only know how it actually plays when these features have been implemented.
when is that? i'd surely like to join such a game, as i only have good ideas when i'm playing!I'm on quite often, usually in the evenings, I'll keep an eye out for you.that would be like an expanded specialist worms setting! quite useful for ctf, fort or axis vs. allies!See the above scheme i detailed ;).are we limited to the standard 8 mines/barrels? i'd like to see some minewar games or gauntlet running games with lots of mines/barrels!We are at the moment, although Deadcode was talking about increasing the number of mines a while back.that sounds quite hard to implement, as you would have to manually go through all the sprites of the landscape options to make it sensible! (e.g. rock=indestructible, easter egg=destructible)
and how will that work with user maps, btw?There is going to be a new map format - TIFF. TIFF images allow multiple layers to be used. The first layer will be the map, just as PNG's are now, and other layers will be used to designate where mines, barrels and worms go, which bits of land are destructible/indestructible and more. BIT and PNG maps will still work just as they do now.

Note: All these new features will be optional.

>do u fink bazooka wud b cool in pink?
> that r0x0rs!
> how abuot a pink greanade?
> n00b!

How uninformed you are. Singling out the mortar/homing missile colour fix as unneccessary is a big mistake - that change was needed as there was an issue identifying the different weapons just by their colour, as you could with all the other weapons. It was a gameplay issue. Deadcode fixed it.

You have only backed up your claim for 'when will we get something cool' by saying that you think W:A needs "new features/weapons/game modes/tweaks/bonuses/hacks/extras" so I'll answer those points for you.

New Features : Far too many to list, try reading the Readme that comes with the update for details.

New Weapons : WWP didn't even get new weapons & that was made after W:A. Why ? Cos it didn't need any then & it doesn't need any now.

Game Modes : With the changes Deadcode plans there will inevitably be new game modes born.

Tweaks : Deadcode has tweaked & tweaked W:A & he'll still be tweaking W:A long into the future.

Bonuses : Having ranks & logins back will be a bonus after nearly 5 years without them. Having speechbanks, bugs, glitches & random crashes fixed so long after it's release is a bonus that few other games are afforded.

Hacks : You cannot be serious. This isn't CS. No one likes a cheat.

Extras : I'd consider being able to play the entire community of Wormnet2 an extra considering W:A only has ever had 1 main server. Being able to select superweapons in a scheme is an extra, in fact anything that wasn't in W:A V3 is an extra as that's when Team17 stopped working on it.

Getting the picture yet ? Ever heard the saying 'never look a gift horse in the mouth' ?

PS. Insulting Arc & his opinion of 'what wormers want based on years of online experience' won't win you any brownie points either as he's far more qualified to comment on that - more than you'll ever be.

(en revanche, t'as tres bien léché les culs des certaines personnes)

If that means what I think it does, **** you too.

wow, excellent - so you speak on behalf of the majority do you? why would the community not want new features/weapons/game modes/tweaks/bonuses/hacks/extras?? is there something special about worms players that sets them apart from ordinary game playing individuals?

There are enough weapons as it is. Adding more wouldn't be worth the effort required to do so. Ranks and secure logins would benefit the community far more. And having been a part of that community for the last number of years, yes I can say on behalf of everyone I know/play: Ranks are more important than new weapons.

a lot of online time has given you the ability to just "know" huh? strange, cause whenever i'm on the wormnet all i see are gaggles of n00bsayers and elitist children cussing one and everyone...i've never seen anyone talking about the game - let alone future features and what they'd like to see implemented... so, what you're really saying is that your little clique may have mentioned it
once or twice... and that's about it... did it go something like this?

> do u fink bazooka wud b cool in pink?
> that r0x0rs!
> how abuot a pink greanade?
> n00b!
lol, if you'd ever seen me on WN you would know me as I use the same nickname, nor do I ever talk like that. I'm really at a loss to know why you're being so openly hostile just because the rest of us disagree with you. Way to make people care about what you have to say ;) And before you say you don't care what anyone thinks, you should care what Deadcode thinks - ultimately he's deciding what happens.

a new weapon isn't an update? what's the difference between an update and an expansion pack? shouldn't replays and colour maps have been in an expansion pack? maybe you should never have requested these features... maybe the response shoulda been "Lol, buy a new game."

I never requested anything really. I'm pleased with what Deadcode has offered to the community with his updates. Perhaps you might do well to show a bit of gratitude for what he is doing instead of moaning about things that haven't been done.

seriously? what important things are needed now? what life or death feature is required thats more important than actually adding some kind of useful content to the game?
Ranks. Logins. Ranks moreso than logins.


PS: Just noticed dodgy's post, before you take to insulting him too, afaik he's played the game online since it was released, and we've both seen a lot of players come and go. We are actually in tune with the rest of the community not just leet hax0r n00bs!!11! who've played for the last month or so.

afaik Dodgy's played the game online since it was released

Not quite, W:A was released on June 24th 1999, I started 4 months later in October. Close though :)

Ranks lasted 1 week short of a year & were removed on June 17th 2000 if my memory serves me well.

So, in conclusion:

Majority Opinion > Eeevans' Opinion

Action to be taken:

None.

So, in conclusion:

Majority Opinion > Eeevans' Opinion

Action to be taken:

None.
Or to put it another way :

Deadcode Opinion > Community Opinion

Face it dudes, with the exception of Deadcode, we're all got zero say in anything...

You like ranks ? You want logins ? You want weapons ?

There ain't nothing anyone other than Deadcode, can do in any case !
It'd be nice to believe otherwise, but there ya go.

(incidentally, I'm quite happy DC is benign, but i'd've liked to have been able to have more or any concrete sway)

:wq

Or to put it another way :

Deadcode Opinion > Community Opinion

Face it dudes, with the exception of Deadcode, we're all got zero say in anything...

You like ranks ? You want logins ? You want weapons ?

There ain't nothing anyone other than Deadcode, can do in any case !
It'd be nice to believe otherwise, but there ya go.

(incidentally, I'm quite happy DC is benign, but i'd've liked to have been able to have more or any concrete sway)

:wq
When has it ever been any other way?

Short of open sourcing the whole thing you can't change that, and even then you have a few people who are in charge of it. The only solution is to become Deadcode.

hmmm, interesting...

there seem to be a minority of cult-of-deadcode kids shouting louder than anyone
else about secure logins and rankings.... you see, neither of these even register
on the scale for me... wow, another converse opinion!

are you beginning to understand that there's more to a community than the nipple
suckling needs of deadcode's soft, vacant children?... it's not all about "me"...

as cresson stated, it's really all down to deadcode in the end... what does he want
to do? he's remained elusively quiet on the issue all week but i think it's about time
he made his position known... so, deadcode, how do you feel about a public to-do
list? how do you feel about implementing features chosen by the community? how
do you feel about having other experienced coders helping out?

hmmm, interesting...

there seem to be a minority of cult-of-deadcode kids shouting louder than anyone
else about secure logins and rankings.... you see, neither of these even register
on the scale for me... wow, another converse opinion!

are you beginning to understand that there's more to a community than the nipple
suckling needs of deadcode's soft, vacant children?... it's not all about "me"...

I'm beginning to understand you're trolling.

Yes, one or two people posting here possibly do think Deadcode does no wrong. But the most of us don't. As long as you keep spouting that bollocks, you'll just be a troll and people will ignore you. Including Deadcode I'm sure. Why the hell would he want to read your posts insulting people? Try posting a nice, calm post where you don't insult people, you don't say everybody is wrong except you and people that agree with you, and actually think about the fact that there's people that don't agree with you that have been playing for 6 years, 5 years, all the way down to less than a year. Which means it's probably a better representation of the community than you and cresson, who both signed up to the forum this year(you probably played before you signed up, but still, my point stands) and your only input to the community so far seems to be moaning and insulting people. Yeah, because that's really going to help your argument.


I know where you're coming from with your argument, I've worked on open source stuff, and open source is great. But as long as you keep claiming everyone that disagrees with you is part of a "cult of Deadcode" etc., then nobody is going to take you seriously, nevermind anybody that actually matters.

Personally, I don't think you understand a thing about tactfulness, or expressing your ideas in a civil manner, eeevans. That's just my opinion of course, but I bet that there are those that will agree with me.

Truth, just because we want ranks and we want logins, doesn't mean everyone wants it. I for one don't care. But the fact is, majority rules, whether or not everyone likes it. Think about it, if the people that don't want the ranks and logins (or don't see them as a real issue) don't post about it here, and aren't heard publicly, then the opinion doesn't really matter anymore. Once you get a band together, though, then the opinion will hold merit.

Until then, there's not a whole lot you can do. The forums may 'sound' like a bunch of Deadcode worshpers, but they really aren't. They want the new updates to come as much as you do, and they want new stuff as much as you do. The difference, is that they know that trying to PO people isn't going to do any good, and that they've known what they've wanted since 3.0.5.0 came out YEARS before Deadcode started.

hmmm, interesting...

there seem to be a minority of cult-of-deadcode kids shouting louder than anyone
else about secure logins and rankings.... you see, neither of these even register
on the scale for me... wow, another converse opinion!

are you beginning to understand that there's more to a community than the nipple
suckling needs of deadcode's soft, vacant children?... it's not all about "me"...

as cresson stated, it's really all down to deadcode in the end... what does he want
to do? he's remained elusively quiet on the issue all week but i think it's about time
he made his position known... so, deadcode, how do you feel about a public to-do
list? how do you feel about implementing features chosen by the community? how
do you feel about having other experienced coders helping out?

Let it lie, he was asked first.

I know the guy, he's on no crusade and he's kept reasonably informed of longer term plans and ambitions here - with regards to WA/2d stuff. You don't have the right to request that you or anyone else be involved - it's frankly got very little do with you other than either accepting or declining the offer of updates on a 6 year old title. Whether you think that other features could or should be done is neither here nor there.

I think he's doing a good job. At first I was a little iffy, but then I managed to pull some strings here and there and got me some offline rope knocking! ;)

Let it lie, he was asked first.

I know the guy, he's on no crusade and he's kept reasonably informed of longer term plans and ambitions here - with regards to WA/2d stuff.


jeez, spadge... i'm neither asking to be made part of the dev team nor deadcodes inner circle...
i'm not even a c++/directx monkey...

obviously deadcode is far more team17 than he's been given credit for... i figured the general
view was he was just some nerd kid that'd been given the source to do with what he wants...
if that was the case, it didn't seem unreasonable to try and expand things a bit, for the good
of the whole community... to speed things up, to make things more transparent, to push
wa further forward, whatever...

You don't have the right to request that you or anyone else be involved - it's frankly got very little do with you other than either accepting or declining the offer of updates on a 6 year old title. Whether you think that other features could or should be done is neither here nor there.


nothing to do with me? my opinions on features neither here nor there? such attitude!

wow - you should be flattered that there's still such fervent support for a game that should have
died years ago... indeed, you lot should be capitalising on the huge popularity that the 2d game
still has... instead of blinding falling into the 3d genre and living off a reputation that, if we're
honest, was earnt many many moons ago....

jeez, spadge... i'm neither asking to be made part of the dev team nor deadcodes inner circle...
i'm not even a c++/directx monkey...

obviously deadcode is far more team17 than he's been given credit for... i figured the general
view was he was just some nerd kid that'd been given the source to do with what he wants...
if that was the case, it didn't seem unreasonable to try and expand things a bit, for the good
of the whole community... to speed things up, to make things more transparent, to push
wa further forward, whatever...



nothing to do with me? my opinions on features neither here nor there? such attitude!

wow - you should be flattered that there's still such fervent support for a game that should have
died years ago... indeed, you lot should be capitalising on the huge popularity that the 2d game
still has... instead of blinding falling into the 3d genre and living off a reputation that, if we're
honest, was earnt many many moons ago....

You were the one who posted asking when you were getting something cool.

As for "blindly falling into the 3d genre and living off a reputation" I'd suggest you say that to one of the team's face. I can assure you it was no easy feat to shift dimensions - which we did 5 years after first being requested to do so (and turning down).

I'm obviously in the presence of someone who has all the answers to how the games publishing industry works though.

supportI wouldn't call what you are doing support.

you lot should be capitalising on the huge popularity that the 2d game
still has... instead of blinding falling into the 3d genre and living off a reputation that, if we're
honest, was earnt many many moons ago....
Rumour has it they aren't. ;) But we wouldn't know untill there's alot more surtainty about it.

I havnt even see eeevans on WN before.
Do you play under that name eeevans?

i can't beleive I'm still hearing this. (uh.. reaading)

hmmm, interesting...

there seem to be a minority of cult-of-deadcode kids shouting louder than anyone
else about secure logins and rankingsHahahahaha, and you and cresson are the majority are you? Who are you to come in here and decide what the majority want? Dodgymat and SargeMcCluck know what the majority want, they are both admins of the longest surviving worms league, and have seen and participated in many discussions about ranks and logins and the patches in general, as have Arcane, Run, ICEMAN, and myself. We know what the majority want because we see the majority on a daily basis, play them, speak to them often. They also post on the various community forums - if you'd even bother to search this forum you'd find the discussions that have been had about ranks and logins before, how often they pop up, and how strongly the people asking for them have felt about it. I think (i'm not certain) i remember a poll being posted up about it on CL2K a few years back, and it was pretty unanimous.

Who are you again? I've been playing this game actively for nearly 5 years now, and i don't remember seeing you at all. You obviously can't have been around that long or play that much, because your ideas on what the community wants and doesn't want are way off. Try becoming part of the active worms community before deciding what they want, please.

I'm obviously in the presence of someone who has all the answers to how the games publishing industry works though.

It doesn't take a games industry genius/seer to see the missed opportunity in leaving 2D development so far behind 3D. You alluded to longer term t17 plans for 2D in an earlier post - which is great to hear, but you can understand our frustration at wanting an updated 2D Worms - beyond what Deadcode is able to do alone, and stuff that I'm willing to pay money for.

It sounds like W4:Mayhem has improved the 3D formula substantially, but please don't forsake 2D. Surely there must be room in the market for both 2D and 3D Worms games?

N

double post edit

Who are you again? I've been playing this game actively for nearly 5 years now, and i don't remember seeing you at all. You obviously can't have been around that long or play that much, because your ideas on what the community wants and doesn't want are way off. Try becoming part of the active worms community before deciding what they want, please.

You've just made Eeevans point for him. It's not about what he's calling the Cult of Deadcode - i.e. the community here. It's about Worms players and future customers, who believe it or not, are not limited to those who actively read and post on this forum.

And what on earth makes suggestions you make and more valid than suggestions he, I or anyone else makes, because we haven't been posting in here, or you've seen us on Wormnet?? Eeevans, Cresson and I have all played Worms since Worms1 so aren't new to the game by any stretch and are therefore as qualified as you or any other long term player/lover of 2D Worms.

N

I think it's valid to say that the majority of people who will download Deadcode's updates are registered on this forum, CL2K, and/or clan forums. That's the online community. To be honest I don't consider myself a part of it. I'd like to see options like scheme-adjustable rope knocking and Fiddler style customisation (and, of course, getting it to tun at all on my infuriating XP box), and I don't care at all about ranks and logons. In many ways my online experience would be better without it; it'd save me pushing aside some weaker opponents before the real competition took me seriously. But I certainly see the appeal and I wouldn't call it a waste of time. A lot of the things that are planned sound very cool to me, especially the TIFF terrain system that legend has it will appear eventually.

But there's no real way of polling what the silent majority want. They're very obstinate like that, the silent majority.

It's about Worms players and future customers, who believe it or not, are not limited to those who actively read and post on this forum.
Im sure most of us know that. Ive been playing for years and have only come on this forum yesterday, aside from making 1 post last year for some strange reason...
I also dont see how he proved eeevans point...


And what on earth makes suggestions you make and more valid than suggestions he, I or anyone else makes, because we haven't been posting in here, or you've seen us on Wormnet?? Eeevans, Cresson and I have all played Worms since Worms1 so aren't new to the game by any stretch and are therefore as qualified as you or any other long term player/lover of 2D Worms.


The updates are for WA not the other games in the worms series. Not saying that this doesnt mean you shouldnt be concerned about it. Im sure many players are going to make the switch from WWP to WA as more updates are made...but...Mental has been with WA since the beginning, and I wouldnt hesitate in saying he knows every experienced player (be it crappy or good) that has been in WA. Therefore he knows what a lot of the community would want through his talking to them and through his own experiences.

There is going to be a new map format - TIFF. TIFF images allow multiple layers to be used. The first layer will be the map, just as PNG's are now, and other layers will be used to designate where mines, barrels and worms go, which bits of land are destructible/indestructible and more. BIT and PNG maps will still work just as they do now.I spoke to Deadcode yesterday, he's decided to use a folder with multiple PNG images in it instead, due to lack of support for layered TIFF's in many art programs.You've just made Eeevans point for him. It's not about what he's calling the Cult of Deadcode - i.e. the community here. It's about Worms players and future customers, who believe it or not, are not limited to those who actively read and post on this forum.We know what the majority want because we see the majority on a daily basis, play them, speak to them often. They also post on the various community forumsI mentioned the forum-based community as an afterthought in what i posted, the emphasis was on the people we see online on a daily basis (although a large number of these also post on the various forums). I'd class those as the online W:A community, you know, the ones who play W:A online?And what on earth makes suggestions you make and more valid than suggestions he, I or anyone else makes, because we haven't been posting in here, or you've seen us on Wormnet?? Eeevans, Cresson and I have all played Worms since Worms1 so aren't new to the game by any stretch and are therefore as qualified as you or any other long term player/lover of 2D Worms.They aren't suggestions I make, they are suggestions a large number of people have been making for the last 5 years, i just happen to agree. The fact remains, many many people want to see ranks and logins back again, so far only eeevans has insisted that we get new weapons. That's what makes ranks and logins a bigger priority than new weapons in my, and i'm sure most other peoples eyes.Eeevans, Cresson and I have all played Worms since Worms1 so aren't new to the game by any stretch and are therefore as qualified as you or any other long term player/lover of 2D Worms.We're not talking about all 2D Worms games though, were talking specifically about Worms: Armageddon. I'd certainly class the people who run the leagues and have played W:A for the last 6 years as being more qualified to make judgements on the W:A community and what it wants than 2 people who have rarely been a part of it.

Im sure most of us know that. Ive been playing for years and have only come on this forum yesterday, aside from making 1 post last year for some strange reason...
I also dont see how he proved eeevans point...

He was basically saying that Eeevans wasn't entitled to an opinion because he hasn't been a T17 forum or Wormnet regular. Eeevans point was that it shouldn't require having to cosey up to Deadcode to get changes made ("The Cult of Deadcode"), and that if anyone in the community (irrespective of time played) makes a valid suggestion, it should be considered along with any others...and prioritised by what the community wants, not what Deadcode or his friends want.

N

double post edit

I'd certainly class the people who run the leagues and have played W:A for the last 6 years as being more qualified to make judgements on the W:A community and what it wants than 2 people who have rarely been a part of it.

IMHO that makes those dedicated people who run leagues etc very qualified, but NOT EXCLUSIVELY! It means they have insight and experience relating to the game types and people they play with, but that is assuming that the hardcore of 7 years W:A playing is representative of all W:A players...and I'm suggesting that it isn't - merely one group/type of W:A player, and therefore certain types of gameplay/feature ideas.

All I'm saying is don't exclude the rest of us - because we have valid experience and good ideas to contribute, and whilst we're not the same kinds of player as some of you are, we're still W:A/Worms players and part of the same community as you. Howabout some democracy? Use polls to ask the active forum community which updates they'd like to see prioritised by Deadcode. Seems like a fair way to go about it, and frankly, everyone will love/appreciate Deadcode that much more (which he deserves, but on the basis of the code he writes, not on the basis of his fanboys influence).

N

Quasi, I would hardly consider you part of the WA community. The Worms community, yes, but not WA. I think I may have seen you once, but I might be mistaken, and eeevans Ive yet to see.
If a poll were to be made I can guarentee you that if the respondents were only people from the WA community (which is what these updates are for) then the results would be a complete blowout of SecureLogins and Ranks.
I dont mean to discredit your opinion, but all I'm saying is that it seems sort of rediculous to have people influence the future of the game if they havnt given their dedication to the game prior to the vote. That would be like me going and voting for better graphics in Warcraft even though Ive only seen the game played once before.
If you like,you can put up a poll but it wont actually be a true representation of the WA community since this is a general worms forum, and I remember reading on this forum that someone said W3D is the best worms game yet, and I wouldnt give any right to a person who thinks that to influence WA.
Maybe put 3 polls up and compare the results, put one on here. Put one on cl2k, put one on FB or something else. Theres democracy for ya.

I remember reading on this forum that someone said W3D is the best worms game yet, and I wouldnt give any right to a person who thinks that to influence WA.
Even if they play W:A every day?

W:A has been very lucky so far -- people are still playing it after 7 years or whatever, and it's being updated by someone who not only listens to people's suggestions, but plays the game online regularly and is a friendly, open and agreeable kind of a guy. It's little wonder he has his fans.

Even if they play W:A every day?


haha that was kind of a joke, just because I didnt like W3D.

Quasi, I would hardly consider you part of the WA community <snipped>

I wouldn't either, that's fine. But the question is - who are these updates for? They're for any W:A player, not just the regular W:A community here. So just asking for some kind of say in which features are prioritised for development (i.e. the reason why this all kicked off in the first place!) isn't unreasonable.

Plus, if you truly want to improve the gameplay ANY designer will tell you that your test population needs to be representative of the target users. So just seeking opinion and ideas from the hardcore of regulars here might generate a ton of excellent ideas but those ideas aren't the only ones, or the ones with any validity. Often people who are too close to the project can't see certain angles, because they are so close...so some fresh opinions and ideas shouldn't be discredited - it just seems like a good idea all round, but there seems to be this huge cliquey rebellion against this.

Not the end of the world - a huge shame but life goes on. I'll just have to wait and see what comes up next. For the record, I'd like to see v4 stuff come sooner in priority over those dangly ropes features. Even if it means dangly ropes (or whatver they're called) don't see the light of day for longer, and if it means not getting v4 for longer...it would make my gameplay like more interesting than the changes we are seeing.

Deep wormy love

N

He was basically saying that Eeevans wasn't entitled to an opinion because he hasn't been a T17 forum or Wormnet regular.I was saying Eeevans didn't know what the opinion of the majority was because he hasn't been a WormNET or even community in general regular. His own opinion still counts.Eeevans point was that it shouldn't require having to cosey up to Deadcode to get changes made ("The Cult of Deadcode"), and that if anyone in the community (irrespective of time played) makes a valid suggestion, it should be considered along with any others...and prioritised by what the community wants, not what Deadcode or his friends want.Maybe i misunderstood then, i thought he was suggesting that logins and ranks weren't important as they had only been suggested by a small group of us who are Deadcode's friends, when in fact the majority of the W:A community has been screaming for them back since they were originally taken down. Deadcode does take all sensible suggestions into concideration, whether from a close friend or a random post in the update forum, a good idea is still a good idea. Eeevans seemed to be insisting that new weapons were the most important thing in the world though, and that no-one wanted ranks and logins.IMHO that makes those dedicated people who run leagues etc very qualified, but NOT EXCLUSIVELY! It means they have insight and experience relating to the game types and people they play with, but that is assuming that the hardcore of 7 years W:A playing is representative of all W:A players...and I'm suggesting that it isn't - merely one group/type of W:A player, and therefore certain types of gameplay/feature ideas.That's a fair point although the majority of players are the hardcore, because not many people still buy the game, they get Worms 3D or Forts instead as they are the latest.All I'm saying is don't exclude the rest of us - because we have valid experience and good ideas to contribute, and whilst we're not the same kinds of player as some of you are, we're still W:A/Worms players and part of the same community as you.You are not being excluded, feel free to make suggestions in the patch support forum. Many people have, and Deadcode has answered quite a few with "yes, that's a good idea, i'll see if i can do that".

The reason Eeevans has been getting such an argument out of the rest of us is because he thinks that only his opinion matters - he wants a new weapon and that's all there is to it. Logins, ranks, bug fixes, other features that have been suggested don't matter. Also, he's been very brash and insulting in his approach, and as such has gotten a very brash and insulting response. We've even had one of the directors of Team17 - the person in charge of game content - post in here to try and explain that he has no rights to start making demands on what must be included in the patches, and he responded impudently to that as well. He couldn't even find anything real to respond to, so he had a random go at them moving into 3D instead.

Thanks for at least bringing a sensible argument on his side into this thread though N, i'm still waiting for him or cresson to.

Ok so now we are in the year 2009 :D What's going on now? Nothing new, damn :(

What about Armageddon Decade, lets rls some infos now!!!