Well, guys, ten years ago (6 April 2001) Stunt GP released. I think that Team would do something, maybe sequel, because Team now revealing news about only 2 games: Worms and Alien Breed. I know that these games are great, but Team would reactive some games from the past. Sorry for my english.

I agree. Stunt GP is the only good game Team17 has made in the last 12 years (since Worms Armageddon).

Stunt GP HD for XBLA ! Yes of course, very good idea !!! With online multiplayer mode...

I think the current references of similar XBLA racing games are : Gripshift, Things on Wheels and maybe in close futur TNT Racers...

This type of games is very funny and in my opinion in the good XBLA spirit...

To follow about what Team 17 think about Stunt GP :D

I agree. Stunt GP is the only good game Team17 has made in the last 12 years (since Worms Armageddon).
Nah, Worms Blast was an excellent game too. I don't know of any game in the Bust-A-Move genre that is better. (But hey, it's only a year younger than Stunt GP, so it's the last 11 years.)
Too bad it had no network/online multiplayer mode, because I rarely had the chance to play local 2-player with friends.

I'd rather see Worms Battle Rally than StuntGP. A good mix between Mario Kart, Re-Volt and Worms. :)
Maybe even something like Team17 All Star Racing, with all their intellectual property characters as selectable and unlockable drivers (with their fitting vehicles).

I'd rather see Worms Battle Rally than StuntGP. A good mix between Mario Kart, Re-Volt and Worms. :)Ugh. Not another Worms spinoff. That's so cheap. Also, Stunt GP's racing mechanics are so much more fun than Mario Kart's (any version including the best one: DS) imo. Why make bad when you could make good? Actually, just a small compatibility and wall-smash bug fix update for Stunt GP would be perfect.

Ugh. Not another Worms spinoff. That's so cheap. Also, Stunt GP's racing mechanics are so much more fun than Mario Kart's (any version including the best one: DS) imo. Why make bad when you could make good? Actually, just a small compatibility and wall-smash bug fix update for Stunt GP would be perfect.

Cheap? Would that mean that Mario Kart, Mario Party and Super Smash Bros are cheap spinoffs as well? Damn, Worms Blast was bloody brilliant, there could be a lot of potential in a racing game featuring weapons from Worms. I don't remember much from Stunt GP, played it once or twice a bunch of years ago, didn't look all that exceptional.

Ugh. Not another Worms spinoff. That's so cheap. Also, Stunt GP's racing mechanics are so much more fun than Mario Kart's (any version including the best one: DS) imo. Why make bad when you could make good? Actually, just a small compatibility and wall-smash bug fix update for Stunt GP would be perfect.
Well, I just described the style of game with those examples, that I would like to see, not necessarily a carbon copy of Mario Kart.
For that matter, Re-Volt has much, much better driving physics than any other racing game to this day. Convincingly realistic ones.

Other examples of similar games would be Wacky Wheels or Micro Machines.
I just want a fun racing game, with weapon/defense pickups/drops, but set in the Team17 universe (Worms, Super Frog,...).
I would favor it, if the scale was in the RC car or toy car size.

I didn't really like the driving physics in StuntGP. The cars basically felt all the same, like rectangular boxes.
You should really try out Re-Volt and feel its physics, where every single tyre, every wheel suspension, etc. is simulated.

Well guys, maybe Stunt GP wasn't as good as I think, but we all agree that Team must do game other than next Worms or Alien Breed and racing game will be great (mustn't be a sequel of SGP but something similiar to this game).

I agree. Stunt GP is the only good game Team17 has made in the last 12 years (since Worms Armageddon).

LOL!

no.

I don't know if you remember, but when WA released, it was worse than Worms 2 (that was my opinion, at least).


Edit: Yes, I'd also like to see Battle Rally, and that it turns out more like Re-Volt rather than Mario Kart as well.
Because although Mario Kart is pretty fun it's also pretty unfair, concerning items and other powers (how often did you get blown up by a blue shell, three inches before the finishing line?). Re-Volt did a better job at balance, even though it included random items.

Thurbo, once again, you prove your stupidity. I said "since Worms Armageddon". Worms 2 was made before Worms Armageddon, not since Worms Armageddon. At least try to understand what people are saying when you read what they're saying.

I think we might need to make Thurbo alerts.

Thurbo, once again, you prove your stupidity. I said "since Worms Armageddon". Worms 2 was made before Worms Armageddon, not since Worms Armageddon. At least try to understand what people are saying when you read what they're saying.

Why don't you try the same?

What I was trying to say was that if Worms Armageddon wouldn't have been updated since its release, even Worms Reloaded was better now.

I was also trying to say that WA wasn't much of a "better" game than preview versions when it released, means when Team17 made it, though it's sure a good game. But Worms 2: Armageddon/Worms Reloaded, Worms Battle Islands, Worms Open Warfare 2 - how are these not good games? Worms Open Warfare 2, at least, thoroughly is one of the best DS games I own.

Gentlemen's, do not quarrel here about Worms. I think that racing game by Team17 isn't possible, unfortunately ;e

Thurbo, once again, you prove your stupidity. I said "since Worms Armageddon". Worms 2 was made before Worms Armageddon, not since Worms Armageddon. At least try to understand what people are saying when you read what they're saying.

I think we might need to make Thurbo alerts.

Geez, you WA fanboys should calm down a bit and stop being so dense and aggressive towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. I think his point is that even WA wasn't that exceptional, only the community made it into what it is today.
Plus, you're just so negative about every single game Team17 makes, Worms World Party had pretty damn good missions, Worms Blast was a very polished game and it was also very innovative, I've never seen a competitive puzzle game with such interaction between the two opponents. And Worms 3D had a really unique feeling, that you don't find in any other games, even though its gameplay needed a bit more polishing.

So yeah, I think any developer would go crazy if their fans were so negative like this, at least Thurbo here has an objective look at all the games, even after raging at Worms Reloaded for a bit. Because being negative about everything will totally encourage Team17 to make better games, right.


Oh, yeah, back on track, I remember about Stunt GP now. I think I never really liked it much, too generic for my taste, I guess, so I don't have much to say. Although I would really love to see a good whacky racing game like ReVolt as well.

_Kilburn, I am objective. In my last post, I didn't respond to the other posters in this thread because they all had interesting points. Your post here has some points I had been avoiding discussing, like WWP's missions, which are very cool. The only problem with WWP's missions is that they're all possible to have just added to WA. WWP is an evil cash cow with nothing other than its missions to add, which are WA-compatible. By that, I mean, they can, for the most part, ACTUALLY be loaded into WA just by replacing some files. There was no reason to release an entire new game for that. Team17 just wanted money, and they got it.

Also, WA quickly inspired Fudge Boy to create The Fiddler (http://worms2d.info/The_Fiddler). He did so within the first 6 months of the game's release. This caused WA to be almost-immediately better than W2. I realize this means that Team17 didn't make WA great in the first place, but The Fiddler has influenced what I've said in this thread and this paragraph explains that. In a way, WA's limitations inspired great things from the community, which, in a way, makes it great. The same didn't happen for WWP, since there was already a ton of progress on WA. Also, WWP still didn't have ranks on its release, whereas WA did (a huge reason that it could be considered as good as W2). Everyone thought WWP would reinitialize ranks, making it great. It didn't.

I will admit to not having played Worms Blast beyond looking at it. It's probably fun. It looked really cheesy to me, so I avoided it. For what it's worth, I did like its art style. That's what they should have continued instead of W3D's art style.

When Stunt GP came out, I was extremely impressed with its presentation. It looked graphically incredible (far better than any game I'd seen at the time), it had smooth keyboard controls (something VERY few racing games can boast), it had amazing tracks, and it had a really fun bug I discovered where if you drive into a wall at a high speed, you'd be flung forward along the track at ludicrous speed. I used this in single-player at the end of tracks to get good times. I found that fun.

I pre-ordered Worms 3D and got it before it came out in my region, hoping they'd have fixed the horrible art style (worms with lockjaw and retarded smiles). W3D broke the mood of the series for me. I didn't like the art style. Team17 forgot this simple fact: what made Worms good was the fact that it didn't know how ridiculous it was. The worms themselves used to be serious. There were intense war stories in the Wormsongs explaining that "if the bug didn't get you, you'd probably drowned" and the worms "shivered on patrol". Worms 3D and onward forgot this whole intensity which made the series funny.

I was honestly excited, although skeptical, when Team17 said they were going to make another good Worms game for the PC "like Worms Armageddon". I hoped they were going to get rid of the crappy explosions, try hard to code a good rope, bring the worm sizes and distances into the proper scale again, and use the lessons hard-learned from WA development to avoid bugs for the game's release rather than making the community patch their game. If they had, Team17 would have become wildly successful. As it is now, many players see gameplay demos and think, "Oh, it's just another recent Worms game with that same recent-Worms-game style. Why buy it when I have [WA/W4/WOW2/PSN W1/PSN W2A]?" Those are probably their most successful Worms games and WR is a relatively cheap port of their recent games made without much effort. Heck, you can cheat online with ArtMoney on your turn. It's ludicrous. At least you can't do that on the PSN Worms games.

At this point, Team17 has squeezed the last juice out of their suburbanite-aimed Worms games. I have no idea what they could be trying now, but if it's a Worms game, I doubt they'll get a very good response as of now.

Also, to me, sales don't matter as much as gameplay. The recent Worms games (WR especially) only sold well because of their convenience, advertising trickery, and Worms series' legacy. New players have heard that Worms is a good series, so they conveniently bought the game from PSN. PSN is really easy to buy games on. It's very convenient. I'm sure that the majority of PSN Worms customers don't play that game very much. OH, and there's this. They abused the name "Armageddon" to get more sales. What a dirty trick. They should pay Fudge Boy, Deadcode, and CyberShadow for that. CyberShadow opened up the entire Russian market for WA when he added cyrillic to the game. Now that WA is considered their most popular game, they trick people into thinking this awful new game ("Worms 2 Armageddon") is WA? To me, that's frustrating. There's a reason I don't like the new games. I hope what I've written will make me sound objective. I just didn't want to write it all out and be laughed at by the no-reading, feeble-minded Thurbo who constantly trolls these forums.

Edit: I know this post is messy. I was trying to dump everything I could before forgetting about particular points.

Everyone plays and likes games for his own opinions. Being objective is pretty hard, even for you, as I wouldn't call "I dislike W3D for it's art style and the worms that don't take their own war serious any longer" too objective, just for instance...

I loved the art style of Worms 3D to Worms 4, as it was impressive how much atmosphere the different themes had (I also want to say Bjorn's soundtracks helped a lot). The graphics weren't up to date, but Team17's artists did a brilliant job.

To get back to my actual point, again: When I got W:A in 2001, I was seven years old. Without any English knowledge nor experience with tweaks, patches or updates, I had to play the original Armageddon. And that game was just slightly improved compared to Worms 2 (note that W:A was originally planned to be an expansion pack to it). I also missed the level of customisation (yes, I did have fun blowing up all of the landscape with a freaking pistol :p). W:A felt more static, and since I got WWP pretty soon after W:A, for me, W:A was covered by the shadows of those two games, Worms 2 and World Party.

When I discovered those updates in 2007(!), I first played around with all those new options - giant landscapes, 48 worms on the battlefield in total, the many schemes that were new to me, like shoppa and all the other rope based ones, hysteria, BnG etc.

But looking at all this soberly, it wasn't that cool after all - giant maps were totally useless for deathmatch (still great for rope races, of course), 48 worms were simply too much (games took forever, it actually got boring), and while I like the rope, I'm not a huge fan of wxw, shoppa or anything, big rope races and hysteria were the only thing I really liked about the updates.

As you can see, that's my personal opinion of W:A. Objectively, it was just a neat improvement to the series - because what would you change on a game that already is perfect? - just as WWP. The community really was what turned this game into what it is today, and I'm even sad it didn't happen to WWP instead since it used to be the better game of the two. Mission editors (for multiplayer missions, that was a real cool thing imo), Wormpot, Forts... sigh.

---

...by the way, if you had heard the darksider/lightsider voices in W2:A on the iPod/iPhone, they make the worms sound as if they took it serious again. I don't know why they aren't in Reloaded, but they are really cool - as they use a lot of quotes from this site (http://www.worms2.com/main.html?page=good&area=tips&tips=dark), too.

"Dark is the new Light." :D

This is just it. When you got WA in 2001, you were too young to use the internet. The online ranks and community were/are amazing. The Fiddler improved WA far beyond anything W2 had. Fudge Boy reversed the heck out of WA almost immediately when it came out. Worms Armageddon Clan League created an incredible community.

Just because so many people play shoppers these days doesn't mean you have to. My favorite scheme happens to be a non-roping scheme (http://worms2d.info/Team17_%28scheme%29). Well, there's one rope in the scheme, but that's it.

Anyway, it's okay to like what you like, Thurbo. I have no problem with that. Just please don't try to stagnate progression. If you want to play the games the way Team17 has been making them recently, please just stick to that instead of trying to stop others from giving players more options. There are other people who understand the true potential the Worms series has. CyberShadow is pushing in that direction, and I'm trying to back him.

Edit: Before you say anything on this subject, I'll make the connection for you: applauding Team17 for their recent weak releases causes them to consider those releases the best they could have done. This stagnates progress. There's so much (http://worms2d.info/4) more (http://feedback.worms2d.info/) that can be done with the series.

Here's an example of what I mean by "potential". World of Warcraft isn't the most popular game right now because of its lack of features. Blizzard sees the potential to get more players playing the game, so they seize that by deepening the gameplay. Team17 seems to be deluded about what players (yes, even so-called "casual players") want in a game right now. This is why they're pumping out more and more games, desperately trying to survive, instead of making one extremely good game and raking in the dough.

Because although Mario Kart is pretty fun it's also pretty unfair, concerning items and other powers (how often did you get blown up by a blue shell, three inches before the finishing line?). Re-Volt did a better job at balance, even though it included random items.
True.
If you get a bottle rocket fired in your behind in Re-Volt, it would only catapult you (physically correct) over the finishing line even faster.

Edit:
Crasher (http://store.steampowered.com/app/90800/) seems to be somewhat in the direction that I imagine such a racing game.
Although it's multiplayer battle racing only, and I definitely want to have a conventional racing mode on tracks, where you can also disable the weapons/power-ups for a simulation experience.

In fact, Re-Volt had all that (racing mode with and w/o weapons, battle arenas, stunt arena).

Also, I don't like Crasher's martial art style. I want an RC car/toy/cartoon style.

Anyway, it's okay to like what you like, Thurbo. I have no problem with that. Just please don't try to stagnate progression. If you want to play the games the way Team17 has been making them recently, please just stick to that instead of trying to stop others from giving players more options. There are other people who understand the true potential the Worms series has. CyberShadow is pushing in that direction, and I'm trying to back him.

I hope I'm not saying anythig wrong again... it's kinda... I used to like W:A for what it was, a chess-like strategy game with worms. I was just a little disappointed it was more limited than W2 concerning options, but let's drop this. I liked the updates when I first discovered them, however I also noticed how many people I met online only played this game for the rope - that dissociated me a little more from W:A, even though rope races are a lot of fun to me.

On the troll thing - I didn't mean to troll anyone. There's a small story to this:
It's 2009 and Team17 announced and released W2:A for XBox. Several people asked Team17 to develop that for PC as well - including me, for the simple reason I don't have an XBox. They finally confirmed they were going to do it, but rename it to Reloaded for the PC version (because people shouldn't think it was an update to the old Worms 2 or Armageddon, which already existed for PC). Whereas we all knew Reloaded was going to be a port of W2:A, people suddenly stormed these forums and other sites and wanted W:R to be exactly as Worms Armageddon, only with newer graphics - what the hell?! - and as they realized Reloaded wasn't going to be like that, they went "Team17/Worms Reloaded sucks" all over the place.
I just decided I wasn't going to "tolerate" that anymore, so that's why you found me replying anytime, anywhere people expressed their animosity towards Reloaded. You may call it trolling if you wish, but please try to understand my point of view.


Crasher (http://store.steampowered.com/app/90800/) seems to be somewhat in the direction that I imagine such a racing game.
Although it's multiplayer battle racing only, and I definitely want to have a conventional racing mode on tracks, where you can also disable the weapons/power-ups for a simulation experience.

That game does look pretty interesting. I'm not a fan of racing games, but still played them if they had items, for some reason that was huge fun to me (so loved Dethkarz, Re-Volt, and Mario Kart DS). Any reviews on this, or is there actually a good alternative, maybe Split/Second?

*Edit* there should be a racing game that lets you design your vehicle all by yourself, similar to the Spore Creator. Battle Rally should take the opportunity :p

there should be a racing game that lets you design your vehicle all by yourself, similar to the Spore Creator. Battle Rally should take the opportunity :p
Yeah, that's another interesting feature, but one that's hard to pull.

The Lego Racer games failed miserably at that, seeing as you should be able to fully build and customize a car from scratch with Lego blocks.

Racing games traditionally only seem to have some upgrade features for various parts/stats/perks of your car.

Well, this topic is imo dead, but I thought so: If Team17 won't do any continuation of Stunt GP, maybe Team can share source code or something like that.

On the troll thing - I didn't mean to troll anyone. There's a small story to this:
It's 2009 and Team17 announced and released W2:A for XBox. Several people asked Team17 to develop that for PC as well - including me, for the simple reason I don't have an XBox. They finally confirmed they were going to do it, but rename it to Reloaded for the PC version (because people shouldn't think it was an update to the old Worms 2 or Armageddon, which already existed for PC). Whereas we all knew Reloaded was going to be a port of W2:A, people suddenly stormed these forums and other sites and wanted W:R to be exactly as Worms Armageddon, only with newer graphics - what the hell?! - and as they realized Reloaded wasn't going to be like that, they went "Team17/Worms Reloaded sucks" all over the place.
I just decided I wasn't going to "tolerate" that anymore, so that's why you found me replying anytime, anywhere people expressed their animosity towards Reloaded. You may call it trolling if you wish, but please try to understand my point of view.


Thing is, a lot of us who were complaining had already played W2:A and knew that the game was pretty bad. Not to mention the vast majority of the people complaining didn't actually want W:A with better graphics, we just wanted something better, or at least something that could compete with it in terms of quality, and we knew a straight port of W2:A wasn't going to even come close to that.

And most of your argument in favor was, IIRC, that the game wasn't out yet and we didn't know. Well, the game is out now, and it's exactly as bad. Of course most of the people new to the franchise won't see the game on such a bad light. To them it's just another fun little multiplayer game with an interesting concept and mediocre execution. But for those of us familiar with what this concept is capable of, it's extremely disappointing.

Hell, even those who wanted a re-release of W:A have a good point. You'd have to be lying to yourself if you think W:A with a new coat of paint wouldn't have created a better impression on people new to the franchise than WR did.



*Edit* there should be a racing game that lets you design your vehicle all by yourself, similar to the Spore Creator. Battle Rally should take the opportunity :p

ModNation Racers? :p

ModNation Racers? :p
On the PC of course, not some company-owned, console-exclusive franchise. :p

And most of your argument in favor was, IIRC, that the game wasn't out yet and we didn't know. Well, the game is out now, and it's exactly as bad. Of course most of the people new to the franchise won't see the game on such a bad light. To them it's just another fun little multiplayer game with an interesting concept and mediocre execution. But for those of us familiar with what this concept is capable of, it's extremely disappointing.

I'm not exactly disappointed, I have to say, and I've been playing this series for about 9 years now, too.

I think it's not much worse than the original Armageddon, but with all these updates, of course...

I have the feeling Team17 missed these out or something. When we had that developer sessions in Reloaded, many of them didn't even know what "Shoppa" or "WxW" was, which took me by surprise a little.

Hell, even those who wanted a re-release of W:A have a good point. You'd have to be lying to yourself if you think W:A with a new coat of paint wouldn't have created a better impression on people new to the franchise than WR did.

I don't know if that's really what I'd want. At the moment, I'm definately playing the newer games way more than Armageddon. There isn't really a reason to play W:A, as I only come there to play Rope Races and maybe a bit of hysteria.

I want to see a different kind of innovation in this series. Just like I thought the "Tactics" mode in Battle Islands would be stunning, but I expected much more from this.

On the PC of course, not some company-owned, console-exclusive franchise. :p

Why, is there a problem with that? ;)