Well, you probably shouldn't have mentioned the amount of posts you need to make to stop being moderated, since the attacks were made by people who seem to have plenty of time on their hands, and I can easily see them taking the time to make five regular posts before spamming the place up. Perhaps if they don't know how many posts are needed they might give up... or something.

It doesn't work like that...

If a new member registers and makes 100 spam posts, their post count will be zero, as all posts go straight into the moderating queue. Then, the mods come online, see there's a new post in the queue and either approve it (ie: user's postcount goes up by 1) or remove it (their postcount doesn't change).

So if a new member posts before we have a chance to validate their first 5 posts, their posts will just keep on going into the mod queue until we deal with them.


Actually...

I've just re-read your post, and I see your point.

Most spambots though don't have that much intelligence. I'll go and edit my original post though.

I don't think they were spambots. This people are most likely /b/tard wannabes.

Yeah, but this also covers spambots, which we have had problems with in the past. Those spammers were most likely Cheech.

I should probably point out that this isn't a new idea, we kind of tossed it around for the Fanart forum, before we introduced the new rules (possibility of moderating every new thread), and again when Iguana-gate happened.

Yeah I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that it's a bad idea to tell them how many posts they need before they will be unmoderated. :p

But you fixed that already so that's ok. :p

Plus you also have to factor in how few people read the announcements, and I reckon a lot of the spammers won't :p


Anyway, if you lot do suddenly find your posts not displaying when you post them, please let us know, as something may have broken somewhere!

Hmm...
Does this mean that the mods and user mods have an increased work load now?
I would volunteer to help.

Well, from the last 24 hours-ish of setting this up, I've moderated about half a dozen posts... don't know what Andrew and Volc. have done though.

I've only had to moderate 3. While there are a huge number of moderated users, they don't post very often.

If we run into problems with this system it should be fairly easy to chage the rules.

Even if we kept the number of posts quiet I think the people who occasionally spam would probably take the time to work out the thresholds. This just makes it a little more effort for them I guess.

really can't see any downside to the system. honestly, it may be a better idea to get more user mods before giving up on the system if there's too much work. even if some people DO go through the trouble of posting a few times first before their spamming spree (which I doubt will happen, honestly), it'll stop the vast majority. I'm sure volunteers or nominees could be found readily enough if it came down to it.

I'm sorry but isn't this a bit.... overkill?

Do we actually have a serious spamming problem? Is this really necessary? I know some people here are moaning because "the forum isn't what it used to be! Oh I remember the good old days where I had to walk 15 miles through the snow before I could post! And that was in the summer too!", but this forum is already discouraging to people visiting as it is, what with them needing to register before they can even view the forum. What's the deal with that anyway? If there's one thing that really p1sses me off, it's not being able to read the threads in a forum without logging in.

But yeah, back to where I was before. I know this is mainly a tech support forum for T17's games, but nobody is ever going to stick arond if having a community is discouraged (I originally came for the Worms 3D news like a lot of people, but I'm still here mainly for WA and the updates). If it's hard for new people to settle in, then they aren't going to stay, and when the veterans eventually leave, what's left for the T17 Forum community?

I know I keep going off on tangents here, but I think part of the reason why this forum "isn't how it used to be" is because there's nothing drawing people here. The news of a 3D worms was really exciting, and I don't think T17 wil be able to draw that sort of interest again (not saying that's their fault or anything, I'm not trying to have a go at the company here), so I think we should be trying to encourage people to come and post, not discourage them. If people aren't encoraged to stay and try to settle in, then this forum will just die. If someone comes along and doesn't try to settle in, then yeah, get rid of them, but if people aren't coming in the first place, what's the point?

I'm sorry but isn't this a bit.... overkill?

Do we actually have a serious spamming problem? Is this really necessary? I know some people here are moaning because "the forum isn't what it used to be! Oh I remember the good old days where I had to walk 15 miles through the snow before I could post! And that was in the summer too!", but this forum is already discouraging to people visiting as it is, what with them needing to register before they can even view the forum. What's the deal with that anyway? If there's one thing that really p1sses me off, it's not being able to read the threads in a forum without logging in.

But yeah, back to where I was before. I know this is mainly a tech support forum for T17's games, but nobody is ever going to stick arond if having a community is discouraged (I originally came for the Worms 3D news like a lot of people, but I'm still here mainly for WA and the updates). If it's hard for new people to settle in, then they aren't going to stay, and when the veterans eventually leave, what's left for the T17 Forum community?

I know I keep going off on tangents here, but I think part of the reason why this forum "isn't how it used to be" is because there's nothing drawing people here. The news of a 3D worms was really exciting, and I don't think T17 wil be able to draw that sort of interest again (not saying that's their fault or anything, I'm not trying to have a go at the company here), so I think we should be trying to encourage people to come and post, not discourage them. If people aren't encoraged to stay and try to settle in, then this forum will just die. If someone comes along and doesn't try to settle in, then yeah, get rid of them, but if people aren't coming in the first place, what's the point? I'm with you on the logging in to view, thing. I also believe that's retarded and is probably keeping a good number of people away. moderating the posts for the first 5 posts seems like a good idea to me, though. it's onyl 5 posts, so it would be very minimally annoying, and the mods are pretty good at response times for the most part. the worst thing I can see happening is that andrew AND thomas both go on vacation at the same time or something. short of that it shouldn't take more than a couple hours at most to get your post reviewed. a large wait that may be, but I think the gain is more than the loss on this one. some forums require ALL posts be moderated in general. at least we're not going that far here.

I'm sorry but isn't this a bit.... overkill?

Do we actually have a serious spamming problem? Is this really necessary?

It's died down a bit recently, but we have had problems with those "Cheap iPhone, etc " spammers. The biggest reason for implementing this was the Cheech-spam that occurred earlier in the week, when a considerable amount of pornographic spam was posted and because it was done at 4 in the morning UK time, our inboxes were filled up with 40 - 50 Reported Post emails and the threads had people moaning that the mods weren't removing it quick enough.

Yes, we could appoint a US-based moderator, but I don't really think there's enough work to warrant that at the moment.

As I said earlier, we considered implementing this with the Iguana problem, but things died down quite quickly. If you look through the mod forum, where threads go whenever an infraction is issued, the majority of the threads are for "Posting spamvertisements" (the rest are for Shadowmoon ;)) - and these users just come here, spam and clear off.

I know of quite a few forums that restrict new members in various ways, by either not granting certain privelages until they have x number of posts or moderating the first few posts.

but this forum is already discouraging to people visiting as it is, what with them needing to register before they can even view the forum. What's the deal with that anyway? If there's one thing that really p1sses me off, it's not being able to read the threads in a forum without logging in.

I'm not sure really, that was one of Sel's ideas. To be honest, I doubt it would do much harm if it was removed.

I know I keep going off on tangents here, but I think part of the reason why this forum "isn't how it used to be" is because there's nothing drawing people here. The news of a 3D worms was really exciting, and I don't think T17 wil be able to draw that sort of interest again (not saying that's their fault or anything, I'm not trying to have a go at the company here), so I think we should be trying to encourage people to come and post, not discourage them. If people aren't encoraged to stay and try to settle in, then this forum will just die. If someone comes along and doesn't try to settle in, then yeah, get rid of them, but if people aren't coming in the first place, what's the point?

Well, obviously we'll have to see how things go, and if it turns out to be a total disaster, then we'll re-think things.

moderating the posts for the first 5 posts seems like a good idea to me, though. it's onyl 5 posts, so it would be very minimally annoying, and the mods are pretty good at response times for the most part.

Let's face it, in 10 mins you could make 5 reasonable posts and once they're approved you have posting access. We're only really going to turn away totally useless posts and spam posts - the vast majority will be accepted

the worst thing I can see happening is that andrew AND thomas both go on vacation at the same time or something.

Well, we've both been modding since 2004 and that hasn't happened yet! Plus, volc. is checking the mod queue when he can. There's bound to be one of the three of us around to check things.

short of that it shouldn't take more than a couple hours at most to get your post reviewed. a large wait that may be, but I think the gain is more than the loss on this one. some forums require ALL posts be moderated in general. at least we're not going that far here.

The biggest wait will be when the three of us are asleep :p as we're all in the UK.

I too think that the mandatory registration to just view the forum should be removed, as it could really drag in a few more people. In combination with the newbie moderation this should work well.
Spammers would register anyway - regardless if they could see the forum first or not.

And if making the forum viewable again should really create more useless newbie posts and overload the mods, one or two new moderators would do the trick.

To create some redundancy I'd suggest one moderator US westcoast moderator (Deadcode already is a mod for certain forums) and possibly one based in Australia of New Zealand to cover more timezones (CyberShadow already is somewhat in between there for certain forums).

Expanding Deadcode's and Cybershadow's modding rights to whole forum wouldn't be bad anyway.

BTW, did I mention yet that I would gladly volunteer as a user mod? I even have a recommendation from Deadcode. :D Also, German is my native language.

The forums were entirely moderated when they first started and we got by so it won't be that bad, but I would have though a better option might be to have a 'being watched' like setting for new users, maybe something like:

New users can post without moderation but no images etc can be posted.
New threads must be modderator approved.

The only problem with the pre-moderation when the forum was first set up was that Team17 staff couldn't find the time to approve every post that every user made, and as the forum grew & grew, the time it took to approve posts increased, so they gave up, and then unlocked the forum.

If this current setup doesn't work out (ie: too much workload), we might look at changing it so as we only have to approve threads, rather than whole posts, but generally things are quite quiet.


Still, it only takes about a minute to approve a pile of posts - just skim them to check that they're OK - if necessary I can then read them later in the context of the threads, and delete them normally.

Expanding Deadcode's and Cybershadow's modding rights to whole forum wouldn't be bad anyway.

I never really understood the idea that CS can be trusted to have commercial source code but not to edit posts here, whereas I can be trusted to edit posts but not to look at code. It seems strange to me, although I can quite see how we got here.

I never really understood the idea that CS can be trusted to have commercial source code but not to edit posts here
Good point.
I suggest you go propose it to Volcadmin.
Not that CS will go on heavy modding sprees in all the sub-forums.

So basically you're whitelisting new users. Actually, what happens if they post more than five posts? Will the sixth onwards just be published? Have you considered alternative methods of preventing spam bots? More complicated CAPTCHAs, like the one Andrew uses on ApathySketchpad? Or do we get more trouble from idiots?

I'm for making the forum free to view. Yes, a closed community is discouraging. I'm also for having a dedicated general chat forum. Online Orgy isn't good enough.

At the moment, all of the mods are based in the UK. It may help to have a couple of usermods in other places worldwide. I'm sure you can find one or two competent members living in the States willing to help out, and Bloopy is in New Zealand and is constructed from the finest Awesomes known to man. So... y'know.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have extra coverage and some fresh influence.

Angelus is based in America and has the bonus of speaking Spanish.

Also, have I said yet that I would volunteer? :D

So basically you're whitelisting new users. Actually, what happens if they post more than five posts? Will the sixth onwards just be published?

If someone registers and posts 6 posts in 10 minutes (for example), as far as the forum is concerned, they have a postcount of zero after those 10mins, as there are still 6 posts in the moderation queue, which haven't yet got onto the forum. Once their postcount reaches 5 (ie they have had 5 posts accepted), they can post freely.

We don't have to manually "whitelist" new users, the forum does it automatically when their postcount hits 5.


And, we can still ban the spammers to stop them filling up the post queue

Have you considered alternative methods of preventing spam bots? More complicated CAPTCHAs, like the one Andrew uses on ApathySketchpad? Or do we get more trouble from idiots?

This is more to stop the idiots and "humans" flooding pornspam, who wouldn't mind solving a CAPTCHA, like on Andrew's blog before they have to post. This method just has the big advantage of also stopping spambots flooding the hell out of the place and consequently filling up the mods' inboxes with post reports.

I would actually rather post in a forum that moderated my first 5 posts than made me fill out a CAPTCHA while my postcount is less than 'x'.

I'm for making the forum free to view. Yes, a closed community is discouraging. I'm also for having a dedicated general chat forum. Online Orgy isn't good enough.

There are a few problems with that...
1. OD would probably die totally
2. Modding "general chat" forums is a right pain in the lower back region. As was demonstrated with the "Funny Pictures" thread, you'd need an army of mods with a lot of free time willing to go through every post to check it meets the rules, because by the time a thread gets reported for breaking the rules, it's often too late and gets binned, causing uproar.
3. Do Team17 want to pay the bandwidth bills for a general chat forum?

make me a mod, the ensuing backlash alone will be more than worth it

make me a mod, the ensuing backlash alone will be more than worth it
You don't remember what happened when I first became a mod and moderated PsyDome quite heavily? I had all of his "gang" (Dodgymat, Dig, MrLee, etc) laying into me :p All in my first week :D

Also, I should probably point out here that as of 1st April, when volcadmin activated this, there were around 4,000 who are in the "pre-moderation" usergroup, over 50,000 who aren't and about 400 who are banned (Sel tended to delete banned users' user accounts and then block their IP address, we leave the account now, as it preserves the IP logs, so we can see easier when someone registers a "ban evading" account)

There's no way of saying "Make me a UserMod" that doesn't sound like you're being an idiot, and I firmly believe in a policy of "Anyone who wants to be in power shouldn't be allowed it", but considering some of the pure, bloody-minded idiocy I've seen tonight I would not object to being handed Mod powers. If Volc ever decides to expand the UserMod team, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring.

I wonder what would happen if all of OD had mod powers.

It'd either be heavenly peace, or hellish anarchy.

You mean like the Anarchy Board on your old forum?

That was brilliant, that, even if it was a bit like chalk pavement art or a sandcastle.

I wonder what would happen if all of OD had mod powers.

It'd either be heavenly peace, or hellish anarchy.I wonder what would happen if all of OD had mod powers in OD.

You got my vote, Ben.
Squirminator2K for user mod!

Maybe give S2K a custom "Idiocy detector" title instead of "User mod". :D

And an avatar that says something along the lines of OVER NINE THOUSAND.

Oh, I fully endorse the idea of moderating people's first few posts. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

I'd just adjust the health on my worm.

I just had a thought:

Since, I'm presuming, some people recently made some semi-decent posts before going on a spamming spree, is it possibly to auto-renable the posts need moderating thing if they make too many posts in too short a time? Or is it simply not worth the effort for the occasional spammer?

Yes - there is one user (I forget who), who spammed a few links to some referral site (they had been registered for a couple of years but didn't have many posts - enough to be out of the mod queue tho), so their postcount was promptly reset.

We are looking into fine-tuning the system - possibly adding more conditions to it that must be satisfied, like if your username contains any alphanumeric characters, then you're permanently in the queue until you've been on the forum for more days than Akuryou13 has posts.

until you've been on the forum for more days than Akuryou13 has posts.WOOO! :cool:

I wonder what would happen if all of OD had mod powers in OD.

http://forum.apathysketchpad.com/display.php?type=forum&id=3

It worked better when people used it -- but blog comments are the future.


Edit: I don't think anyone could ever catch up with Akuryou's post count that way. In any case, users can tell if their posts are pre-moderated or not, so you're kind of stuck: they just have to behave until the little green man with the cross stops appearing and then start spamming.

I don't think anyone could ever catch up with Akuryou's post count that way. I make something like 6 posts per day on average I think, so I'm gunna go with no, there's no frigin way :p

I make something like 6 posts per day on average I think, so I'm gunna go with no, there's no frigin way :p
Our only hope lies with you going completely insane and getting stuck into a padded cell without any internet connection.
After all, you've been on The Brink of Insanity for quite some years now.

Or that he keeps posting in OD, eventually halting his post count.

Or that he becomes a woman and marries a guy, moves to vancouver, adopts a child and then goes to live with his her new family to an area far into the woods with no internet access and lives happily ever after. Without internet access.

Or that he becomes a woman and marries a guy, moves to vancouver, adopts a child and then goes to live with his her new family to an area far into the woods with no internet access and lives happily ever after. Without internet access.
You're crazy. Go find your GTA:SA disk!